# Was 9/11 an inside job? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 30, 2013, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984 "2013-09-30T05:27:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/21 "2013-09-30T16:39:37Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > Just asking cause i find it easy to point to a site or report and claim it was debunked. Read the links. > [@](#): > > 1: At the exact moment i saw the towers collapse on the news i said it looked like a controlled demolition. All of the tower collapsed in neat fashion we know from controlled demolition. You know who almost always disagrees with these claims? People who know anything about demolitions. Debris rained down all over the area and destroyed another building or two. That’s the exact opposite of what you want in a demolition. > [@](#): > > 2: I always found it strange all the rubbish of the towers was quickly shipped off and destroyed. That’s a crime scene erased in a world record breaking way. I don’t need Loose Change to notice that’s abnormal. Maybe, but the FBI didn’t need the evidence to sit there for a year while they sifted through every single piece of it. We all saw planes hit the buildings. > [@](#): > > But i would like to hear some more arguments instead of pointing to reports and links. That’s where the arguments are. If you’re that interested, go read them. > [@](#): > > I don’t think there was anything funny about what happened in 2001. There’s nothing funny about the attacks. The conspiracy theories, however, are so ludicrous that they can be funny. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/22 "2013-09-30T16:41:13Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > What was fake or debunked about Loose Change? One could click on the links but if it was so completely debunked could anyone at least mention one major piece of evidence in their own words? > > Just asking cause i find it easy to point to a site or report and claim it was debunked. > > Example, > > 1: At the exact moment i saw the towers collapse on the news i said it looked like a controlled demolition. All of the tower collapsed in neat fashion we know from controlled demolition. > I don’t need Loose Change or anyone to notice that. > > 2: I always found it strange all the rubbish of the towers was quickly shipped off and destroyed. That’s a crime scene erased in a world record breaking way. I don’t need Loose Change to notice that’s abnormal. > > 3: False flagging is a tried and tested tactic. (of course only bad governments do that) > If the first 2 things i mentioned have been proven false please tell me. I might have missed the debunking. If so, forgive me. > > I can’t say anything about the OP’s question, cause i don’t know. I have no stance. > But i would like to hear some more arguments instead of pointing to reports and links. > > So far the replies are just referring instead of reasoning and mostly ridiculing. Or isn’t anyone even interested? I don’t think there was anything funny about what happened in 2001. > **[EXCLUSIVE…9/11 Debate: Loose Change Filmmakers vs. Popular Mechanics Editors...](https://www.democracynow.org/2006/9/11/exclusive_9_11_debate_loose_change)** > > September 11, 2001–five years after the attacks many people are asking questions about what happened on that day in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania. Websites, articles, books and documentaries have put forward a variety of alternate theories to... 9/11 Debate: Loose Change Filmmakers vs. Popular Mechanics Editors of “Debunking 9/11 Myths” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/23 "2013-09-30T16:44:11Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > I can’t say anything about the OP’s question, cause i don’t know. I have no stance. > But i would like to hear some more arguments instead of pointing to reports and links. > > So far the replies are just referring instead of reasoning and mostly ridiculing. Or isn’t anyone even interested? I don’t think there was anything funny about what happened in 2001. …and you don’t appear to need any facts, either! If you did, you’d, ya know, click the links and read the reports. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/24 "2013-09-30T16:44:25Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > 1: At the exact moment i saw the towers collapse on the news i said it looked like a controlled demolition. All of the tower collapsed in neat fashion we know from controlled demolition. > I don’t need Loose Change or anyone to notice that. Gravity pulls downward. When a building fails its going to fall basically straight down, whether it is from a controlled demolition, or from losing structural integrity from the fire caused by tons of burning jet fuel. Your intuition of seeing towers of blocks topple over sideways is not applicable in the larger scale of buildings in which the forces involved are much greater than the lateral structural integrity of its materials. In order for a building to fall sideways there would have to be a huge amount of lateral force, that in this case didn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/25 "2013-09-30T16:44:44Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > 2: I always found it strange all the rubbish of the towers was quickly shipped off and destroyed. That’s a crime scene erased in a world record breaking way. I don’t need Loose Change to notice that’s abnormal. > [@Marley23](#): > > Maybe, but the FBI didn’t need the evidence to sit there for a year while they sifted through every single piece of it. We all saw planes hit the buildings. And debris was sifted through while it sat in that landfill. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/26 "2013-09-30T16:48:28Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > I always found it strange all the rubbish of the towers was quickly shipped off and destroyed. Define “quickly”. There was moldering rubble for months after the towers fell. Debris removal wasn’t completed until the following May: 8 months after the attack. While that’s pretty quick for moving that much debris, it’s hardly indicative of a rush to hide evidence, either. It’s rather the opposite. And it’s not like the debris was immediately destroyed, either. Much of it was moved off site and examined later. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/27 "2013-09-30T16:49:59Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > 2: I always found it strange all the rubbish of the towers was quickly shipped off and destroyed. That’s a crime scene erased in a world record breaking way. I don’t need Loose Change to notice that’s abnormal. It took 8 months - thats not exactly ‘quick’ - nor was it ‘destroyed’ as soon as it was ‘shipped off’ - they went thru the debris for another 3 years (atleast in the case of looking for human remains). > **[World Trade Center site](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_site)** > > The World Trade Center site, often referred to as "Ground Zero" or "the Pile" immediately after the September 11 attacks, is a 14.6-acre (5.9 ha) area in Lower Manhattan in New York City. The site is bounded by Vesey Street to the north, the West Side Highway to the west, Liberty Street to the south, and Church Street to the east. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ) owns the site's land (except for 7 World Trade Center). The original World Trade Center complex stood on th T... You need to simply research this and you can find this info easily - ---
**Author:** ![ruben4ruben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@ruben4ruben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruben4ruben)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/28 "2013-09-30T16:53:04Z")
Thanks for all the info. i’m not sure about this though: > [@](#): > > Gravity pulls downward. When a building fails its going to fall basically straight down, whether it is from a controlled demolition, or from losing structural integrity from the fire caused by tons of burning jet fuel. Your intuition of seeing towers of blocks topple over sideways is not applicable in the larger scale of buildings in which the forces involved are much greater than the lateral structural integrity of its materials. In order for a building to fall sideways there would have to be a huge amount of lateral force, that in this case didn’t exist. So i’ll go ask some folks about it. Thanks everyone. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/29 "2013-09-30T16:59:02Z")
Grrr. A group calling itself “ReThink 911” has started to advertise on BART trains. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/30 "2013-09-30T16:59:06Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > 1: At the exact moment i saw the towers collapse on the news i said it looked like a controlled demolition. All of the tower collapsed in neat fashion we know from controlled demolition. [This is what a controlled demolition looks like.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtmwJVmBvXg) [This is what the WTC collapse looked like.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM88xJX5FsA) How many controlled demolitions have you seen that started mid-span and produced a dust cloud that spread for several square miles, and were not preceded by the sound of explosions? None? I thought as much. (Oh, and by the way, _God damn you_ for making me look a video of that up on Youtube and watch it again. It was bad enough seeing it happen the first time.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/31 "2013-09-30T17:07:02Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > 2: I always found it strange all the rubbish of the towers was quickly shipped off and destroyed. That’s a crime scene erased in a world record breaking way. I don’t need Loose Change to notice that’s abnormal. It was moved. It was not destroyed. The debris was moved to Fresh Kills site where NIST went through it, finding the pieces that were relevant to their investigation. Once they were done much of the pieces were used in various 9/11 memorials around the US, and some was used in the Carrier Ronald Reagan. The idea that the scene needed to be treated as a ‘crime scene’ and left to fallow while agents sifted through the pieces with bodies rotting in the debris and chemicals spilling into the water system is obscene. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/32 "2013-09-30T17:11:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [This is what the WTC collapse looked like.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM88xJX5FsA) Not that I agree at all with the OP or his friend, but it’s ironic that you linked to a conspiracy theory YouTube. The guy that posted that video thinks the WTC (but only the North Tower) was brought down by an underground nuclear explosion. Which is a new CT to me. His “evidence” is some shaking of the camera 12 seconds before the explosion. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/33 "2013-09-30T17:16:32Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Not that I agree at all with the OP or his friend, but it’s ironic that you linked to a conspiracy theory YouTube. I’m not going to click on 50 different videos of an event that I didn’t want to see happen _once_ in order to vet the identities of the people posting them. The point is that anyone who says the WTC collapse looked like a controlled demolition has either never seen a controlled demolition or seen the WTC collapse. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/34 "2013-09-30T17:16:52Z")
> [@](#): > > 3: False flagging is a tried and tested tactic. (of course only bad governments do that) I could maybe believe that Cheney really was the sort of Dr Evil figure he was portrayed as, with Bush as his grinning lackey. But then how did Obama win? Cheney/Bush pull off this huge worldchanging event, then their team loses to some dumbass newbie Senator. The only way that can happen is if they all work for the same team, that there really are a secret group that runs the world, Illuminati style. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/35 "2013-09-30T17:21:18Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Grrr. A group calling itself “ReThink 911” has started to advertise on BART trains. These cunts have advertised on buses in Ottawa! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/36 "2013-09-30T17:23:17Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > What was fake or debunked about Loose Change? One could click on the links but if it was so completely debunked could anyone at least mention one major piece of evidence in their own words? Well, if I had to pick just one, it would be the fact that the filmmaker, Dylan Avery, originally created the film as an explicit work of fiction, and tried repeatedly to market it as such to investors. Until noted conspiracy crank Philip Jayhan offered to finance and distribute the film, provided Avery agreed to re-edit and promote it as non-fiction. But the real problem with the film is that it’s so filled with lies and distortions, it’s really hard to pick just one. Here’s an idea: you pick out the parts of the movie that you think are particularly convincing, and we’ll tell you why its bullshit. > [@](#): > > Just asking cause i find it easy to point to a site or report and claim it was debunked. Oh my God, it is _so_ easy. You have _no idea_ how easy it is to debunk Truther conspiracies. > [@](#): > > 1: At the exact moment i saw the towers collapse on the news i said it looked like a controlled demolition. All of the tower collapsed in neat fashion we know from controlled demolition. > I don’t need Loose Change or anyone to notice that. Really? [This](http://cdn.lightgalleries.net/4bd5ebf2966e6/images/collapse-01-2.jpg) looks like a “neat” collapse? I’m hardly an expert on controlled demolition, but I’ve never seen one where it ejected a massive cloud of debris like that. If you don’t trust my observations, though, you could ask an actual expert in controlled demolition. Doesn’t really matter which one, they’ll pretty much all tell you the same thing: there’s no way the WTC was destroyed by controlled demolition. > [@](#): > > 2: I always found it strange all the rubbish of the towers was quickly shipped off and destroyed. That’s a crime scene erased in a world record breaking way. I don’t need Loose Change to notice that’s abnormal. So, how long should it have taken before that started? What similar event are you comparing it with, to determine how long would have been “normal?” > [@](#): > > 3: False flagging is a tried and tested tactic. (of course only bad governments do that) Well, yes, that is a thing that has happened before in history. Of course, generally such schemes target strategically unimportant, but emotionally resonant, structures. The WTC was kind of the opposite of that. It was not, generally speaking, a very popular landmark. But it was extremely vital to the economy of the US. Likewise with the Pentagon. If you want to stage a fake terrorist attack to drum up national sentiment for military action, here’s a much better idea. Blow up a bunch of schools. People will freak the fuck out, _way_ more than they would over the destruction of a overgrown office building, and back just about any military action you care to name. And you don’t do vast damage to the nation’s infrastructure, right before you start a major military operation. > [@](#): > > If the first 2 things i mentioned have been proven false please tell me. I might have missed the debunking. If so, forgive me. You did miss the debunkings. They were in the links you didn’t bother to click on earlier in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/37 "2013-09-30T17:36:11Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > Thanks for all the info. > > i’m not sure about this though: > > So i’ll go ask some folks about it. Thanks everyone. Imagine a toothpick stuck in an orange. If you hold the toothpick upright, it can support the orange, because all of the force if pressing straight down on the pick. But if you rotate the toothpick, even just a little bit, the weight is no longer pressing straight down on the pick, but is acting as a shear force - and the toothpick snaps. When the upper levels of the WTC started to cant, the structures that had been designed to support weight that pushed straight down on them. One they were at an angle, that weight became a shear force, and the columns were not designed to support a load in that manner, so they failed, and the whole structure disintegrated. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/38 "2013-09-30T17:41:48Z")
You know, the other thing about false flag operations is that people generally find out they are false flag operations within a few years. And Al Qaeda has left no doubt they were responsible. They’re actually quite proud of it. Worse yet, for a false flag operation, we didn’t have anything like military readiness to embark on a series of wars halfway across the world. Quite the opposite. The idea it was a false flag operation would involve impeccable secrecy and planning setting things up in NYC while completely screwing those very things up everywhere else. It’s hard to mesh that combination of utter, precise professionalism and boneheaded bumbling. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/39 "2013-09-30T17:50:09Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > 1: At the exact moment i saw the towers collapse on the news i said it looked like a controlled demolition. All of the tower collapsed in neat fashion we know from controlled demolition. How much do you know about controlled demolitions? It did not look like a controlled demolition at all, to my eyes. Indeed, to my view, _a controlled demolition appeared impossible._ The point of collapse of the towers was the part where the towers were struck by airplanes. I do not understand how a controlled demolition would work in an area devastated by an airplane strike; the impact would wreck the demolition setup. > [@](#): > > 2: I always found it strange all the rubbish of the towers was quickly shipped off and destroyed. That’s a crime scene erased in a world record breaking way. I don’t need Loose Change to notice that’s abnormal. What’s “quick” to you? It took eight months. > [@](#): > > 3: False flagging is a tried and tested tactic. (of course only bad governments do that) This doesn’t serve as evidence 9/11 was an inside job. Of course it is true false flagging is a tried and tested tactic. But it’s also true that terrorism is a tried and tested tactic, so why should I not believe it was simply terrorism? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984/40 "2013-09-30T17:51:20Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > These cunts have advertised on buses in Ottawa! Its basically Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth under a different name. Gage has found his income stream running dry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-an-inside-job/669984.md?page=3)