# Was 9/11 ARRANGED by the Bush Admin? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2003, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284 "2003-12-11T05:23:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/1 "2003-12-11T05:23:54Z")
This isn’t a rant, but I’m putting it in the Pit because it was surely inspire a few rants. I just read an interesting article here: [http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2003/12/10/norquist/index.html](http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2003/12/10/norquist/index.html) in which Joe Conason points out that there’s a link between Islamic terrorists and Bush administration dirty trickster Karl Rove via shadowy Administration supporter Grover Norquist, whose Islamic Institute – link [here](http://www.islamicinstitute.org/index2.htm) – has been connected with convicted supporters of Islamic terrorism. So the pathway goes Islamic terrorists --\> Grover Norquist --\> Karl Rove. And this is not a casual association, these are people who work together and strongly influence one another. Now, it can be argued that the very best thing that ever happened to the Bush Administration politically speaking was 9/11. His Administration’s popularity was sagging at that point, and the Dems were opposing him vigorously. Then came 9/11 and Boom! Bush is popular and the Dems collapsed like a house of cards. So the question arises … could 9/11 be the ultimate dirty trick ever pulled by Karl Rove? Maybe there’s a REASON the Bush Admin. ignored all those warning about the likelihood of a terrorist attack. Yes, I know this is an unfounded speculation and let no one say I am claiming it is demonstrably true – at present. But it is certainly within my understanding of the character and personality of Karl Rove. Whaddya think, is this a trail worth following or what? ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/2 "2003-12-11T05:27:31Z")
> [@](#): > > I know this is an unfounded speculation and let no one say I am claiming it is demonstrably true Not like that’s ever stopped this kind of investigation. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/3 "2003-12-11T05:33:02Z")
good grief. I hate BUsh. Really. But I cannot believe that **any** American would have conspired to create 9/11. we can argue about relative prepardness and all, but that’s not what you’re doing. this is as offensive as it was when Ann Coulter wannabes called us traitors. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/4 "2003-12-11T05:39:58Z")
No. Next question? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/5 "2003-12-11T05:43:26Z")
Yeah, but Ann is just mad because the folks aren’t doing what they’re saying. I’m just pointing out that there’s METHOD: Rove has a long history of dirty tricks dating back to his Texas days. 9/11 would top the lot of them, but it’s hardly unprecedented in the annal of politics generally. MOTIVE: As noted, 9/11 REALLY helped the Bush Admin. OPPORTUNITY: The Norquist/Islamic Institute link demonstrates that Rove had a plausibly-deniable backdoor channel to Islamic terrorists. It’s one thing to make generic accusations, it’s another one to connect the dots. BTW, I haven’t mentioned Bush specifically because I don’t know that Dubya would have been in on it. It seems quite plausible that Rove, or Rove and Cheney, would have kept something like that secret from Dubya. ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/6 "2003-12-11T05:46:14Z")
Um, what? A search on “Grover Norquist” on the Islamic Institute site yields only a few citations, all referring to him as Pres of Americans for Tax Reform. So your basic premise (ridiculous as it was to begin with) is already out the window. You need to add at least one more link there to your chain. Plus, would you care to back up your claim that the Islamic Institute has links to terrorism? Not all of us subscribe to Salon. Why do I get the feeling that if somebody accused the Islamic Institute of links to terrorism without concordant linking to the Administration you’d be jumping all over them for anti-Muslim hatred? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/7 "2003-12-11T05:49:25Z")
Please… are we going to recycle the “Pearl Harbor was planned by Churchill/FDR/Alien Overlords” for a new generation? Let’s not, okay? I’d rather think that Rove wouldn’t casually order the murder of 2500 Americans and other Citizens of Earth for a stupid political point. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/8 "2003-12-11T05:51:48Z")
Yep, Rove created 9/11. And Hillary killed Vince Foster. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/9 "2003-12-11T05:58:57Z")
I heard that **Evil Captor** beats hobos to death with a hammer in his spare time. Yes, I know this is an unfounded speculation and let no one say I am claiming it is demonstrably true – at present. But it is certainly within my understanding of the character and personality of **Evil Captor**. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/10 "2003-12-11T05:59:55Z")
For people utterly convinced of the Bush administration’s stupidity, this is an awful lot of confidence you’re putting in them to be able to pull off something like 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/11 "2003-12-11T06:00:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fang \* > \*\* Plus, would you care to back up your claim that the Islamic Institute has links to terrorism? Not all of us subscribe to Salon. > > Why do I get the feeling that if somebody accused the Islamic Institute of links to terrorism without concordant linking to the Administration you’d be jumping all over them for anti-Muslim hatred? \*\* You don’t need to subscribe to Salon to access the article. All you have to do is click on the “Day Pass” option which will allow you in after watching a brief ad. No cost and very little time involved. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/12 "2003-12-11T06:04:23Z")
[The vast right-wing conspiracy, led by Horowitz in this case, has been all over Norquist for some months now.](http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=11209) > [@](#): > > …As Frank Gaffney’s article recounts, Grover’s own Islamic Institute was initially financed by one of the most notorious of these operatives, Abdurahman Alamoudi, a supporter of Hamas and Hezbollah who told the Annual Convention of the Islamic Association of Palestine in 1996, “If we are outside this country we can say ‘Oh, Allah destroy America.’ But once we are here, our mission in this country is to change it.” Grover appointed Alamoudi’s deputy, Khaled Saffuri to head his own organization. Together they gained access to the White House for Alamoudi and Sami al-Arian and others with similar agendas who used their cachet to spread Islamist influence to the American military and the prison system and the universities and the political arena with untold consequences for the nation… The Rove connection… > [@](#): > > The association between Grover Norquist and Islamists appears to have started about five years ago, in 1998, when he became the founding chairman of an organization called the Islamic Free Market Institute, better known as the Islamic Institute.1 The Institute’s stated purpose was to cultivate Muslim-Americans and Arab-Americans whose attachment to conservative family values and capitalism made them potential allies for the Republican Party in advance of the 2000 presidential election. > > If successful, such an outreach effort could theoretically produce a windfall in votes and campaign contributions. Consequently, it enjoyed the early support of Karl Rove, when he was then-Governor Bush’s political advisor, and who knew Norquist from their days in the College Republicans. But, as usual, it’s bipartisan sleaze. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, some associated with the Islamic Institute evidently had another agenda. Abdurahman Alamoudi, for one, a self-described “supporter of Hamas and Hezbollah,”2 the prime-mover behind the American Muslim Council (AMC) and a number of other U.S.-based Islamist-sympathizing/supporting organizations, saw in the Islamic Institute a golden opportunity to hedge his bets. > > **For years, Alamoudi had cultivated ties with the Democratic Party and its partisans, and contributed significant amounts to its candidates. These donations had given Alamoudi access to the Clinton White House and enabled him and his associates to secure the right to select, train and certify Muslim chaplains for the U.S. military.3** [bolding mine] Now, fast forward to the chaplain scandal in Gitmo… It’s free, no registration required. You will have to face some conservative blogging. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/13 "2003-12-11T06:05:50Z")
I can totally see the happening when you realize how often Presidents do hokey shit to either get into office or boost their popularity. Working backwards: Bush helped the terrorists fly into the World Trade Centers and Pentagon, LBJ had JFK assasinated, FDR allowed the Japanese to bomb Pearl Harbor, Theodore Roosevelt blew up the Maine so he could charge up San Juan hill and get elected president, Wilson gave the Germans the coordinates for the Lusitania, Lincoln figured a civil war was a sure bet for staying in office so he sent agents to the other side to start shooting at Fort Sumter. The list is endless. We could compose lists like this for years or… \*\*conspiracy theorist could get a life. \*\* I would take bets on that happening but the ultra-elite-top-secret men in black with their black helicopters will use their mind control rays to skew the results. ---
**Author:** ![MrTuffPaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MrTuffPaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrTuffPaws)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/14 "2003-12-11T06:08:49Z")
Considering what a blood game politics has become, it would not surprise me **huddles with his tin foil hat**. No really, why is it standard to state that these persons of incredible power would not perpetrate atrocities upon their own people when we all know that they would actually be judged by their sympathetic peers. Look at the crap that went on in Iran-Contra. Slap on the wrist and you become a national hero. Am I saying that Rove did it, no. But I am saying that it is possible. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/15 "2003-12-11T06:09:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Long Road \* > \*\*men in black with their black helicopters will use their mind control rays to skew the results. \*\* 1920’s style “Mind Control” rays. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/16 "2003-12-11T06:11:10Z")
**EC** , I’ll give you Motive and Opportunity, but the Method part just isn’t credible. As evil as Rove may be, to say that arranging the deaths of thousands of innocent people is within his reach because he’s a really sleazy dealer beyond the bounds of credibility, well over into paranoid delusion. And as for 9/11 being hardly unprecedented in the annals of politics, well, maybe if you’re comparing it to Stalin’s engineered famine of Ukraine or Mao’s Great Leap Forward, sure. As low as my opinion is of Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld or George may be, not only do I not see them in the same ballpark, they’re not even circling the parking lot yet. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/17 "2003-12-11T06:11:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrTuffPaws \* > \*\*Am I saying that Rove did it, no. But I am saying that it is possible. \*\* Martians abducted me and stuck a giant Number 2 pencil in my ass. I’m not saying they did it, but I am saying it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/18 "2003-12-11T06:11:50Z")
Sure, I have another link. I have one from conservative columnist David Horowitz’s Front Page column. Of course, it doesn’t speculate as I do, but it certainly establishes that Norquist founded the Islamic Institute and that there are Islamic terrorist supporters there … [http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9928](http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9928) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/19 "2003-12-11T06:15:36Z")
This would actually point to espionage by the Islamic terrorists, specifically, something they used to figure out when to attack. I think it would be interesting to find out were Norquist was on the days leading to 9/11. I do think the money those groups handled was one of the reasons the U.S. government (and even the Democrats are not clean on this IMO) allowed Bin Laden family members and other Saudis to fly within the country when there was a general ban on air travel due to 911. That, however, is as much a connection I can see in this case, I do agree with **wring** that it is stupid to claim the administration arranged 911, it looks more like they were manipulated by powerful Arab groups to “look the other way” when the shit hit the fan. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2003, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284/20 "2003-12-11T06:16:50Z")
Of course the fact that the terrorists were in the US training for 9/11 long before Bush ever got into office means that they were planning on rigging the whole election, so the Florida mess was really the conspiracists work to get Bush into office. :rolleyes: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-9-11-arranged-by-the-bush-admin/218284.md?page=2)