# Was Abraham Lincolns Assasination part of a Greater Conspiracy?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [May 19, 2004, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935 "2004-05-19T07:56:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/1 "2004-05-19T07:56:49Z")
Receintly I’ve just put down a book called “Forced into Glory” written by Lerone Bennett Jr. This book went into great detail to educate the masses about Mr. Lincolns true intentions when signing the Emancipation Proclamation, intentions that were aimed more at ridding the United States of African America that freeing and accepting it as part of the overall population. Although several critics went to great lengths to discredit this book in general, I myself found it very informative with several cites and references to support the contents. This book now leads me to another question, not about his life or views on slavery, but his death. While searching the web for more references, I ran across [THIS BOOK](http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/books/05/18/review.lincoln/index.html) . As of yet, I am unfamiliar with all the writings of Charles Higham, but I find the cited prologue to be very interesting.
**Topic to Debate:** Was there more to the Assasination of Abraham Lincoln that we actually know? Did John Wilkes Booth act alone?
I can remember reading once somewhere (no cite) that while Abraham Lincoln lie dying on his deathbed, his doctors used metal detectors to help them locate the bullet that entered his body. The only problem was that the bedsprings that Lincoln was lying on were made of metal, and his Doctors (who were working so frantically to save his live) didn’t take time to think about this. Do you think that if there was indeed a conspiracy to kill Lincoln, that his doctors may have been a part of it?
Tell us, what sense can you make of all of this?
---
### Author:  [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/2 "2004-05-19T08:29:29Z")
Starguard, you seem to have some serious misperceptions about history. Earlier you thought that Thomas Jefferson was influenced to write the Declaration of Independence by his romantic involvement with Sally Hemmings (which turned out to be absurd considering she was 3 years old at the time). I suggest you read up on actual history a bit more!
Are you not aware that several of Booths coconspirators were captured, tried, convicted, and hanged?
> **[The Civil War](https://www.thoughtco.com/civil-war-4133348)**
>
> The bloodiest conflict in American history, the Civil War pitted brother against brother. Use these resources to better understand how this conflict tore the nation apart and how both sides struggled to achieve victory.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/3 "2004-05-19T09:43:59Z")
So to answer the OP, yes, there was a greater conspiracy- just not the one you’re implying.
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### Author:  [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/4 "2004-05-19T10:03:14Z")
> [@Blalron](#):
>
> Starguard, you seem to have some serious misperceptions about history. Earlier you thought that Thomas Jefferson was influenced to write the Declaration of Independence by his romantic involvement with Sally Hemmings (which turned out to be absurd considering she was 3 years old at the time). I suggest you read up on actual history a bit more!
>
> Are you not aware that several of Booths coconspirators were captured, tried, convicted, and hanged?
>
> [The Civil War](http://712educators.about.com/cs/historycw/l/blcwphlincoln9.htm)
I stand corrected the post about Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmimgs. I boldly admit that I should have read more about the two of them and gathered a list of cites before making that post.
**I ADMIT I BO-LO’ed** :smack:
But help me out on this one. Lerone Bennett’s book was (to me) a very good read and this topic has really got me going right about now.
> [@Blalron](#):
>
> Are you not aware that several of Booths coconspirators were captured, tried, convicted, and hanged?
Yes I am very aware of this. It says so in the cite I provided
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### Author:  [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/5 "2004-05-19T10:05:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> So to answer the OP, yes, there was a greater conspiracy- just not the one you’re implying.
Do you have any factual cites that support this?
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### Author:  [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/6 "2004-05-19T10:09:56Z")
> [@Starguard](#):
>
> I can remember reading once somewhere (no cite) that while Abraham Lincoln lie dying on his deathbed, his doctors used metal detectors to help them locate the bullet that entered his body. The only problem was that the bedsprings that Lincoln was lying on were made of metal, and his Doctors (who were working so frantically to save his live) didn’t take time to think about this. Do you think that if there was indeed a conspiracy to kill Lincoln, that his doctors may have been a part of it?
> Tell us, what sense can you make of all of this?
Exweeese me?
_Metal detectors_ in the 1860’s???
---
### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/7 "2004-05-19T10:10:10Z")
I was agreeing with **Blalron**. You asked if there was a greater conspiracy. I said there was- Booth conspired with others to kill Johnson and Seward as well. I’m not an expert on Lincoln or anything, but I’m familiar with the story. However, you asked if there was a coverup or if the doctors were involved, which I’ve never heard before.
At latter half of your cite throws considerable doubt on Higham’s theory.
“His evidence is sketchy at best.”
“The links between them are tenuous and Higham tries to obscure his lack of proof with bluster.”
“The author’s celebrity biographies have done little to establish his reputation as a careful researcher. “Murdering Mr. Lincoln” will do nothing to improve it.”
---
### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/8 "2004-05-19T10:34:28Z")
Of all the Lincoln assassination sites I’ve found, [this one](http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln74.html) is in my opinion the best. I suscribe to the small conspiracy theory, in which Booth and a small band (Atzerodt, Paine, Herold) plotted to kill Lincoln, Johnson, and Seward.
The metal detector part seems outlandish, perhaps you’re confusing this with the [Garfield assassination](http://www.historybuff.com/library/refgarfield.html) , where Alexander Graham Bell brought in a metal detector in an attempt to find the bullet.
Lincoln’s wound was mortal and the bullet was located by use of a probe. Even today, not much could have been done for him.
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### Author:  [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/9 "2004-05-19T10:39:19Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I can remember reading once somewhere (no cite) that while Abraham Lincoln lie dying on his deathbed, his doctors used metal detectors to help them locate the bullet that entered his body. The only problem was that the bedsprings that Lincoln was lying on were made of metal, and his Doctors (who were working so frantically to save his live) didn’t take time to think about this. Do you think that if there was indeed a conspiracy to kill Lincoln, that his doctors may have been a part of it?
> Tell us, what sense can you make of all of this?
Wrong President - [James Garfield](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Garfield) is the one this happened to.
---
### Author:  [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/10 "2004-05-19T11:14:27Z")
> [@Vagus](#):
>
> Wrong President - [James Garfield](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Garfield) is the one this happened to.
THANK YOU 🙂
THANK YOU 🙂
THANK YOU 🙂
THANK YOU 🙂
(You too BobLibDem) 🙂
---
### Author:  [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/11 "2004-05-19T14:20:53Z")
Will no one think of the Jesuits?!?
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/12 "2004-05-19T14:33:35Z")
> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> Will no one think of the Jesuits?!?
I think of them all the time, they’re great tapdancers. 🙂
Say, did anybody mention James Garfield? Not only was an attempt made to use a metal detector to find the bullet in him, but he was _also_ a great tapdancer.
_Before_ he got shot, I mean.
I don’t think he was a Jesuit, though.
All humor aside, **Starguard** , I suggest you read a few more general books on history. _Battle Cry Of Freedom_ was published by Oxford University, & though very thick, is possibly the best book on the topic to date.
I also suggest that you become a little more selective in your reading material, and a trifle more critical in your assessment of ideas.
---
### Author:  [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/13 "2004-05-19T14:36:09Z")
Mary Surratt, who owned the boardinghouse where the kidnapping and asassination plots were hatched, was convicted on some pretty shaky evidence, and there’s a school of thought that she, while Confederate sympathizer, didn’t deserve the death penalty (they were kind enough, however, to shield her from the blazing sun with a parasol before they executed her). Her son, John, fled the country and was never punished for what some see as his greater role.
Samuel Mudd, the doctor who set Booth’s leg, was eventually pardoned (by Jimmy Carter, IIRC).
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/14 "2004-05-19T14:39:17Z")
> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> Will no one think of the Jesuits?!?
I once read a Jack Chick comic book – in fact I’ve still got it, somewhere in storage – called “The Big Betrayal,” which blames the Lincoln assassination conspiracy on the Jesuits; but I forget the alleged nature of their interest, or how Lincoln’s death would benefit them. It also features Father Chiniquey (sp?), a French-Canadian Catholic priest of the same period who became disillusioned with Catholicism, broke with the Church and took his congregation with him – don’t know if any of that story is true or not.
In Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea’s classic _Illuminatus,_ Hagbard Celine mentions to George Dorn that “Stanton the banker” got hold of Booth’s diary and then turned it over to the authorities with several pages missing. No idea what was the source for that, whether it’s history or UL. (Maybe John Dillinger would know, but last time I brought it up, he and Hitler almost came to blows over it, Adolf being of a much more skeptical turn of mind.) This Stanton, by the way, apparently would be Edwin McMasters Stanton, Lincoln’s Secretary of War, who later became a prominent opponent of President Andrew Johnson. The Encarta article says Stanton was a lawyer but mentions no connection to any banking business.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/15 "2004-05-19T14:50:17Z")
> [@FriarTed](#):
>
> Will no one think of the Jesuits?!?
John Surratt did become a papal Zouave. \
And **plnnr** , even though Surratt was never punished, he was tried in 1867. (He got off when the jury deadlocked)
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [May 19, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/16 "2004-05-19T16:15:30Z")
There will always be debates regarding Mrs. Surratt’s and Dr. Mudd’s guilt or innocence. Louis Weichmann, a boarder at the Surratt house at the time, wrote a book that I highly recommend ( [True History of the Assassination of Abraham Lincoln and the Conspiracy of 1885](http://www.truecrimeink.com/assassin.htm))and that points to their guilt. See his [affadavit](http://www.surratt.org/documents/Bplact18.pdf), and excerpts from his [testimony](http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USACWweichman.htm)
John Lloyd testified that
> [@](#):
>
> On the Tuesday before the assassination Weichmann and Mary Surratt visited him. Lloyd claimed that Mrs. Surratt “told me to have those shooting-irons ready that night, there would be some parties who would call for them. She gave me something wrapped in a piece of paper, which I took up stairs, and found to be a field-glass. She told me to get two bottles of whisky ready, and that these things were to be called for that night.”
In addition, [the lost confession
of George Atzerodt](http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln82.html), points to their guilt. I believe both were in up to their eyeballs. Clearly Mudd knew Booth well before the assassination, clearly Surratt played a role in the plot, probably providing logistical support to the conspirators.
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### Author:  [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/17 "2004-05-20T05:36:48Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#):
>
> I think of them all the time, they’re great tapdancers. 🙂
>
> Say, did anybody mention James Garfield? Not only was an attempt made to use a metal detector to find the bullet in him, but he was _also_ a great tapdancer.
>
> _Before_ he got shot, I mean.
>
> I don’t think he was a Jesuit, though.
>
> All humor aside, **Starguard** , I suggest you read a few more general books on history. _Battle Cry Of Freedom_ was published by Oxford University, & though very thick, is possibly the best book on the topic to date.
>
> I also suggest that you become a little more selective in your reading material, and a trifle more critical in your assessment of ideas.
Thanks for the reference. This book will be my next choice of reading 🆒
---
### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/18 "2004-05-20T06:26:11Z")
There apparently was a small cabal that intended to assassinate various people as others have posted. However, there were also as many wild tales about conspiracies etc. after Lincoln’s death as about JFK.
A good book that includes most of them, or maybe all, is _Myths After Lincoln_ by Lloyd Lewis, Grosset and Dunlap. I believe it is out of print now but it should be available in a good library and can be bought used on the internet by searching for the book title.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/19 "2004-05-20T06:31:56Z")
For my part, as an alumnus of Georgetown University, I would gladly see the Jesuits blamed for Lincoln’s assassination and for every other evil in which they might or might not have been complicit, and I would rejoice to see every last priest of the Society of Jesus hanging dead and bleeding from a cross. What good and decent person could feel otherwise?
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-abraham-lincolns-assasination-part-of-a-greater-conspiracy/245935/20 "2004-05-20T15:23:23Z")
Re: The Jesuits
While I have rarely met a conspiracy I didn’t like, this one seems to be REAL iffy. Quoting _The Suppressed Truth about the Assassination of Abraham Lincoln_ by Burke McCarty (1924) at [this site](http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln74.html), “In all the bloody history of the Papacy, perhaps in no one man, as in Abraham Lincoln, was there concentrated such a multitude of reasons for his annihilation by that system.”
Huh? _LINCOLN?!?!?_ Why?
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