# Was Amanda Knox Involved In Any Way With Her Roommate's Murder? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906 "2011-09-28T17:39:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/181 "2011-10-05T17:45:01Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I don’t see why. It’s just a matter of statistical reasoning. If the night a girl is murdered just happens to be the night that her husband cannot provide a coherent explanation for his whereabouts, it’s a pretty amazing coincidence. Seriously. This is just so wrong. Ever heard of ‘innocent until proven guilty’? Ever heard of this pesky thing called ‘evidence’? Nine nights out of 10, I’m at home reading. That’s about the most ‘coherent’ explanation I could give for any random night, and there’d certainly be no evidence that I didn’t leave the house. By your brilliant logic, I’d obviously be involved if the girl next door turned up dead. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/182 "2011-10-05T18:22:11Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [li]I don’t know if the DNA evidence is completely irrelevant, even after the expert’s report. DNA evidence if done properly has a very high probative value, and experts in this analysis are used to testifying in court that “the likelihood that this DNA came from someone other than so-and-so is one in 17 billion”, or something to that effect. Once the evidence is contaminated, they can no longer be sure to nearly that extent, and what’s more is that they can no longer be sure to what extent they _can_ be sure - there’s simply no science that says once the evidence is “contaminated” the probability changes from X to Y. Contamination of the evidence is a very broad category that covers a very wide range of situations, and the extent to which the probability changes would vary similarly. But that doesn’t mean that in any given circumstance the fact that police failed to follow proper procedure means that the victim’s blood being on a knife in the accused’s possession etc. means nothing at all.[/li] It means the victims blood may not have been on the knife at all. That’s what bad technique in forensic PCR does. The DNA that was amplified could have come from anywhere. If a lab is doing PCR on the victims blood, then the victims DNA is being amplified and is a very likely contaminant throughout the lab. PCR is notorious for this. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/183 "2011-10-05T18:30:32Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > It means the victims blood may not have been on the knife at all. That’s what bad technique in forensic PCR does. The DNA that was amplified could have come from anywhere. If a lab is doing PCR on the victims blood, then the victims DNA is being amplified and is a very likely contaminant throughout the lab. PCR is notorious for this. Of course. But there’s also a good chance that it was on the knife. Considered in combination with other evidence, it adds to the likelihood that the BF (& by extension, Knox) was involved with the murder. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/184 "2011-10-05T18:55:26Z")
You’re bootstrapping. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/185 "2011-10-05T19:04:05Z")
Either you’re misusing the term, or we just disagree. Whichever … ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/186 "2011-10-05T21:28:40Z")
**Nathan S** , _calunnia_ sounds **somewhat** similar to perjury in this country, except that I don’t think it’s possible to commit perjury except in a sworn proceeding. Within that limitation, though, it’s equally possible to commit perjury by falsely claiming that someone is _innocent_ of a crime. Either way, it’s a felony although the maximum penalty in California, which is four years IIRC, is significantly less than the fourteen years it once was. I don’t think it’s very common for defendants to be tried for perjury alone, unless the prosecutors believe he/she has really committed a more serious offense, or multiple other offenses, for which they lack evidence. (If this is gibberish I call on **Bricker** and any other American lawyers to say so) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/187 "2011-10-05T21:38:39Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > No it’s not probative of anything. It might mean that the husband needs to be looked at more closely, but as an indicator of guilt, it is worthless. Well do you agree it would be a pretty big coincidence if it happened? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/188 "2011-10-05T21:40:39Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Fun fact, people routinely make stupid and inexplicable as well as unreasonable decisions. That does not make them murderers. > > Also, what you state is with respect bullshit. People have admitted to crimes they did not, could not have committed. People have lied to protect others, even if it means a far worse fate for themselves. People have maintained lies even when it is in their interests to stop doing so. I’m not sure what you are saying here. Are you disputing that most people (in the West) will ultimately admit to having an adulterous affair in order to exculpate themselves from a murder accusation? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/189 "2011-10-05T21:45:59Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Ever heard of ‘innocent until proven guilty’? Ever heard of this pesky thing called ‘evidence’? Absolutely. And there is a lot of “evidence” against Amanda Knox. The question is what to make of it. > [@](#): > > Nine nights out of 10, I’m at home reading. That’s about the most ‘coherent’ explanation I could give for any random night, and there’d certainly be no evidence that I didn’t leave the house. That would qualify as a coherent account of your whereabouts. It’s reasonably plausible and it’s consistent with available evidence. On the other hand, if your cell phone records indicated that at 2:00 am you made a telephone call from a convenience store 50 miles away and your explanation was that you went out to buy a pack of cigarettes, that would not be a coherent story since presumably there are convenience stores much closer. > [@](#): > > By your brilliant logic, I’d obviously be involved if the girl next door turned up dead. :rolleyes: Sure, if she just happened to be raped and murdered that same night just outside of the same convenience store 50 miles away. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/190 "2011-10-05T22:04:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Is anybody else in this thread thinking of “The Long Black Veil”- for several reasons? Thinking about it? I’ve been singing The Band’s version in my head since adultery was first mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheField](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@LilyoftheField](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheField)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/191 "2011-10-05T22:06:49Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Well do you agree it would be a pretty big coincidence if it happened? It would be a coincidence only if said husband had a coherent alibi for every other night of his life and it was ‘only’ the night that his wife was murdered that he couldn’t account for. That might seem odd. And even then, it would hardly be indicative of guilt. Otherwise, just - no. It doesn’t even qualify as a significant coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/192 "2011-10-05T22:26:25Z")
> [@LilyoftheField](#): > > It would be a coincidence only if said husband had a coherent alibi for every other night of his life and it was ‘only’ the night that his wife was murdered that he couldn’t account for. I think you are accusing “alibi” with “reasonably coherent account of whereabouts and actions.” Someone who was alone all night reading would not have an alibi, but they would have a reasonably coherent account of their whereabouts and actions. They would say that they were alone all night reading and their story would match all of the circumstantial evidence. It’s very rare that an innocent person would not be able to give a coherent account of their whereabouts and actions. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/193 "2011-10-05T22:28:19Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Absolutely. And there is a lot of “evidence” against Amanda Knox. The question is what to make of it. No, there isn’t. There’s no question “what to make of it” because there isn’t really any evidence suggesting Knox had anything to do with Kercher’s murder. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/194 "2011-10-05T22:33:00Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No, there isn’t. There’s no question “what to make of it” because there isn’t really any evidence suggesting Knox had anything to do with Kercher’s murder. Of course there is. For example the DNA found on the knife; the DNA found on Kercher’s bra clasp; the staged robbery; and so forth. Now, you may believe that this evidence is fraudulent or not persuasive for some reason. But that doesn’t change the fact that it is inculpatory evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/195 "2011-10-05T23:46:50Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Of course there is. For example the DNA found on the knife; the DNA found on Kercher’s bra clasp; the staged robbery; and so forth. > > Now, you may believe that this evidence is fraudulent or not persuasive for some reason. But that doesn’t change the fact that it is inculpatory evidence. There’s this thing called “science” - ah, never mind. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/196 "2011-10-06T01:24:15Z")
> [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](#): > > There’s this thing called “science” Yes, that’s right. See, it’s often possible to take a very small biological specimen, like a few drops of blood, and match it to the person from whom the blood or whatever came. Here’s the Wikipedia article on the subject: > **[DNA profiling](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_profiling)** > > DNA profiling (also called DNA fingerprinting and genetic fingerprinting) is the process of determining an individual's deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) characteristics. DNA analysis intended to identify a species, rather than an individual, is called DNA barcoding. > DNA profiling is a forensic technique in criminal investigations, comparing criminal suspects' profiles to DNA evidence so as to assess the likelihood of their involvement in the crime. It is also used in paternity testing, to establish... ---
**Author:** ![OneChance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/74df32/32.png) [@OneChance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneChance)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/197 "2011-10-06T01:48:19Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Of course there is. For example the DNA found on the knife; the DNA found on Kercher’s bra clasp; the staged robbery; and so forth. > > Now, you may believe that this evidence is fraudulent or not persuasive for some reason. But that doesn’t change the fact that it is inculpatory evidence. Do you mean the knife that was found at Sollecito’s house that was found to not be compatible with Kercher’s wounds or the bloody outline on her bed? Or the bra clasp that was collected after six weeks that contained Sollecito’s DNA that independent experts have said could have easily gotten there by contamination? Or the staged robbery that retired forensics officer Francesco Pasquali already debunked under oath? Do you mean that evidence? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/198 "2011-10-06T01:56:20Z")
> [@OneChance](#): > > Do you mean the knife that was found at Sollecito’s house that was found to not be compatible with Kercher’s wounds or the bloody outline on her bed? I’m not sure. As I recall, a knife was recovered at Sollecito’s house which was alleged to have the victim’s DNA on it. I don’t know if you are referring to the same knife or some other knife. > [@](#): > > Or the bra clasp that was collected after six weeks I would think so. > [@](#): > > Or the staged robbery that retired forensics officer Francesco Pasquali already debunked under oath? Again, I’m not sure what staged robbery you are referring to. In the Knox case, evidence was presented that a robbery (actually a burglary) was staged. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/199 "2011-10-06T02:37:34Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I’m not sure. As I recall, a knife was recovered at Sollecito’s house which was alleged to have the victim’s DNA on it. I don’t know if you are referring to the same knife or some other knife. Same knife. > [@](#): > > Again, I’m not sure what staged robbery you are referring to. In the Knox case, evidence was presented that a robbery (actually a burglary) was staged. Same burglary. ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheField](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@LilyoftheField](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheField)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/200 "2011-10-06T02:39:54Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > It’s very rare that an innocent person would not be able to give a coherent account of their whereabouts and actions. I believe that premise is flawed. I’m pretty sure that such a thing is not that rare at all. Especially in the ‘college student, party all night, drink, get stoned and have a good time’ age group. Probably not all that rare even in other age groups. Drinking and/or drugging tends to have a deleterious effect on short term memory. There’s a reason why the popular conception of a hangover usually includes something along the lines of ‘OMG, what did I do last night?!!’ And if you still want to play statistics, I’m willing to bet that such memory lapses seldom involve murder… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906.md?page=11)