# Was Amanda Knox Involved In Any Way With Her Roommate's Murder? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906 "2011-09-28T17:39:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/201 "2011-10-06T03:52:49Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Yes, that’s right. See, it’s often possible to take a very small biological specimen, like a few drops of blood, and match it to the person from whom the blood or whatever came. > > Here’s the Wikipedia article on the subject: > > [DNA profiling - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_profiling) This DNA evidence was eviscerated by the experts hired by the court > **[Definition of EVISCERATE](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eviscerate?show=0&t=1317872999)** > > to take out the entrails of : disembowel; to deprive of vital content or force; to remove an organ from (a patient) or the contents of (an organ)… See the full definition ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/202 "2011-10-06T04:04:25Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Yes, that’s right. See, it’s often possible to take a very small biological specimen, like a few drops of blood, and match it to the person from whom the blood or whatever came. > > Here’s the Wikipedia article on the subject: > > [DNA profiling - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_profiling) In fact, as I stated previously, the amount of DNA needed for PCR is so small that any lab without extremely good practices will have rampant false positives. If they had items with the victims DNA being analyzed in the same lab they would have been just as likely to find her DNA on your collar. I assume you can account for your whereabouts that night. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/203 "2011-10-06T04:07:47Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > It’s very rare that an innocent person would not be able to give a coherent account of their whereabouts and actions. Cite? Surely you wouldn’t make such a bald assertion of fact without a cite, would you? ---
**Author:** ![OneChance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/74df32/32.png) [@OneChance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneChance)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/204 "2011-10-06T05:07:04Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I’m not sure. As I recall, a knife was recovered at Sollecito’s house which was alleged to have the victim’s DNA on it. I don’t know if you are referring to the same knife or some other knife. I’m not sure if you’re referring to the same Sollecito or some other Sollecito. > [@brazil84](#): > > Again, I’m not sure what staged robbery you are referring to. In the Knox case, evidence was presented that a robbery (actually a burglary) was staged. I’m not sure which Knox case you’re referring to. See, two can play at that game. But I’m not sure which game you think I’m referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/205 "2011-10-06T09:21:13Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite? Surely you wouldn’t make such a bald assertion of fact without a cite, would you? Can I ask once more for you to elaborate on your comment: > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I hope the family of the deceased can finally join the human race. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/206 "2011-10-06T09:34:25Z")
They’re angry that the people who were convicted are being let go even though the evidence proves they didn’t do it and were railroaded by the Italian police. [http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/main-section/kerchers\_back\_to\_square\_one\_in\_justice\_quest\_1\_3838663](http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/main-section/kerchers_back_to_square_one_in_justice_quest_1_3838663) Honestly, it’s an obviously disgusting reaction and it’s so obviously disgusting that Bo probably doesn’t feel the need to explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/207 "2011-10-06T10:27:52Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > They’re angry that the people who were convicted are being let go even though the evidence proves they didn’t do it and were railroaded by the Italian police. > > [http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/main-section/kerchers\_back\_to\_square\_one\_in\_justice\_quest\_1\_3838663](http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/main-section/kerchers_back_to_square_one_in_justice_quest_1_3838663) > > Honestly, it’s an obviously disgusting reaction and it’s so obviously disgusting that Bo probably doesn’t feel the need to explain it. Did you read your own link? > [@](#): > > Miss Kercher’s brother Lyle said: “While we accept the decision that was handed down … and respect the court and the Italian justice system, we do find that we are now left obviously looking at this again and thinking how a decision that was so certain two years ago has been so emphatically overturned now.” > > Mr Kercher added: “It’s my understanding that the prosecutors will be going ahead to appeal the decision but I believe it’s actually someone higher up who decides that. > > “We would support them fully in that.” > > Miss Kercher’s sister Stephanie said: “It may be a case of waiting another year now to get the truth and we can’t decide that. > > “We have to leave that to the police, the forensics and the courts.” I guess I’m missing something here. Which part of the above do you think is a self-evidently disgusting reaction from the family? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/208 "2011-10-06T11:30:01Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Since this is GQ. The factual answer is yes. She was convicted of murder in an Italian court. The results of the appeal will be known later this year. I’d have to disagree. The factual answer has nothing to do with a court of law. If she is innocent a court finding won’t change that. Similarly if she is found guilty. What we get is a court finding which does not alter whether or not she did have any part in a murder. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/209 "2011-10-06T13:22:23Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > I guess I’m missing something here. Which part of the above do you think is a self-evidently disgusting reaction from the family? The evidence has overwhelmingly proved that Knox was railroaded. It’s disgusting that they would support any appeal to overturn her acquittal. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/210 "2011-10-06T14:02:41Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > The evidence has overwhelmingly proved that Knox was railroaded. It’s disgusting that they would support any appeal to overturn her acquittal. I am dismayed at the sort of self-righteousness it must take to look at the hurt, desperate reactions of the family of the victim, their craving to see justice done for their daughter, their vulnerability to believing what the local prosecution tell them happened…and add insult to that injury by accussing them of behaving badly. You should honestly be ashamed. Let’s just recap here. Their daughter/sister was raped, and then murdered over a lengthy period of time. They were then sucked into a media circus of epic proportions, and had the local prosecutors telling them that Rachel was killed as part of a horrific sex game, etc. Can you imagine just how much they have suffered over the last 4 years, thinking about her final moments? Are you surprised that, having gone through that, they would take comfort thinking that at least the guilty had been caught and punished? Now the verdict has been overturned, and frankly I think anyone at arms length from this case is relieved. But for the Kerchers, what little closure they had is now gone. The appeal judge has stated that her murder “[will remain an unsolved truth](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jy6hIOWZLzZNXBBDVbLBZ5WrD3yw?docId=CNG.6216ce2d0c5df66dc8a1dd73f7dc3c9b.01)”. The high court ruling Guede’s sentence stated that in their opinion Guede didn’t act alone. On top of that,[there’s a huge list of unresolved queries](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/04/ap/europe/main20115700.shtml) still left. So no, I don’t see them doing anything at all inhuman or disgusting in still clinging to the theory the prosecutors stated as fact 4 years ago. I just see some terribly hurt people who have not only lost someone they love, but had to then try to come to terms with it in the most public of circumstances, and then be reminded of it again and again, all the while getting no real answer to who did it or why. I have an incredible amount of sympathy for them, and I find it quite lamentable that they should be accused of being anything other than victims who have suffered greatly. ---
**Author:** ![Nathan\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@Nathan\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nathan_S)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/211 "2011-10-06T16:42:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Nathan S, calunnia sounds somewhat similar to perjury in this country, except that I don’t think it’s possible to commit perjury except in a sworn proceeding. Within that limitation, though, it’s equally possible to commit perjury by falsely claiming that someone is innocent of a crime. Either way, it’s a felony although the maximum penalty in California, which is four years IIRC, is significantly less than the fourteen years it once was. No, perjury is simply giving a false statement under oath. Calunnia, which I don’t believe is a specific offense under common law, is accusing a person of a crime even though you know he/she is innocent. The key is the knowledge of the person’s innocence; if you accuse an innocent person of a crime but are convinced of his/her guilt, it’s not calunnia. > [@](#): > > The evidence has overwhelmingly proved that Knox was railroaded. It’s disgusting that they would support any appeal to overturn her acquittal. Nope. The problem, for the prosecution, was insufficient evidence. At least, according to the Court of Appeals. Nothing was “proved” about Ms. Knox being “railroaded.” ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/212 "2011-10-06T17:11:23Z")
> [@Nathan\_S](#): > > Nope. The problem, for the prosecution, was insufficient evidence. At least, according to the Court of Appeals. Nothing was “proved” about Ms. Knox being “railroaded.” [Cite](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/06/us-italy-knox-idUSTRE79555T20111006) ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/213 "2011-10-06T17:22:48Z")
> [@Nathan\_S](#): > > Nope. The problem, for the prosecution, was insufficient evidence. At least, according to the Court of Appeals. Nothing was “proved” about Ms. Knox being “railroaded.” Perhaps you have a different definition of railroaded than I do. ---
**Author:** ![Nathan\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@Nathan\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nathan_S)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/214 "2011-10-06T17:32:01Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Perhaps you have a different definition of railroaded than I do. I think the normal sense of “railroading” involves convicting a person of a crime against all evidence. That didn’t happen here. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/215 "2011-10-06T17:38:35Z")
> [@Nathan\_S](#): > > I think the normal sense of “railroading” involves convicting a person of a crime against all evidence. That didn’t happen here. No, it involved convicting a person even though there was no evidence. It’s a distinction without a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Nathan\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@Nathan\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nathan_S)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/216 "2011-10-06T17:41:57Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > No, it involved convicting a person even though there was no evidence. It’s a distinction without a difference. Nope, again. There was evidence, plenty of it. What it boiled down to was how trustworthy the dna evidence was. The first judges thought it was valid, the Court of Appeals didn’t. Who was right? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/217 "2011-10-06T17:49:32Z")
> [@Nathan\_S](#): > > Nope, again. There was evidence, plenty of it. What it boiled down to was how trustworthy the dna evidence was. The first judges thought it was valid, the Court of Appeals didn’t. Who was right? Plenty is probably an exaggeration. > [@](#): > > For just as indisputable as Kercher’s dead body, found with her throat cut in her bedroom, is the fact that there is not one iota of physical evidence placing Knox at the crime scene. Niente, nada, nihil. There is a knife, yes, and it has Knox’s DNA on its handle. The knife was found at the house of Knox’s then boyfriend, Sollecito — but if she had helped him to prepare dinner, traces of her DNA on his knives would not be surprising. > > But the attorney Anne Bremner, who offered her services pro bono to Knox via Friends for Amanda, has roundly dismissed the idea that Sollecito’s is the knife that killed Kercher. Bremner argues that the murder weapon was never found; a bloody print on the bed linen, she says, conveys the shape of the actual murder weapon and the knife in question “doesn’t match an outline of the knife on the bed”. > **[Latest news & breaking headlines](https://www.thetimes.com/)** > > The latest breaking UK, US, world, business and sport news from The Times and The Sunday Times. Go beyond today's headlines with in-depth analysis and comment. ---
**Author:** ![Nathan\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@Nathan\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nathan_S)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/218 "2011-10-06T18:08:57Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Plenty is probably an exaggeration. The case was a battle between expert witnesses. Who was right? I don’t know, and I doubt whether anyone without specialized knowledge in that field would even be able to hazard an intelligent guess. By the way, trusting newspaper accounts (especially foreign sources) to get legal questions right is iffy at best. In my experience, news reports always get something wrong, and sometimes they get everything wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/219 "2011-10-06T19:39:05Z")
So Nathan, what happens now? Is there double jeopardy in Italian law? Can Knox be tried again? What about the prosecutor? He seems to have bungled two high profile cases. Does he keep his job? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/220 "2011-10-06T19:50:15Z")
> [@LilyoftheField](#): > > I believe that premise is flawed. I’m pretty sure that such a thing is not that rare at all. Especially in the ‘college student, party all night, drink, get stoned and have a good time’ age group. Even on nights when you get completely smashed, your account of your actions or whereabouts will normally make sense and be consistent with the circumstantial evidence. For example, you can’t remember anything about what you did last night after you were drinking at a bar; there is vomit on the floor of the bar’s bathroom with your DNA in it; your credit card records show that you bought a pack of cigarettes at the convenience store down the street; the surveillance cameras from the convenience store show you buying a pack of cigarettes there; and your cell phone records show two 30-second calls to the number of your ex-girlfriend. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906.md?page=12)