# Was Amanda Knox Involved In Any Way With Her Roommate's Murder? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906 "2011-09-28T17:39:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/121 "2011-10-04T12:53:10Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I’ve always assumed (and I may be wrong) that it wasn’t a case of her saying something once under stress, the police went away and that was it. I thought it was more her repeatedly stating it in an effort to get the attention off her. Less something under duress, more a calculated choice. > > But as I said, I may be wrong. My understanding is that the police suggested it was Lumumbia in the first place, and continued to push this idea on her throughout the interrogation, and told her she may simply have pushed the memories out of her mind and that they could “help” her recover those memories. She finally started saying things like “Lumumbia is bad, he’s bad!” and at this point they gave her the thing to sign and she did. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/122 "2011-10-04T13:01:15Z")
> [@Nathan\_S](#): > > Sure, pressure is the point of interrogation. But it’s still no excuse for lying. If it were, it would kind of eliminate interrogation as a useful investigative tool, wouldn’t it? > > I really haven’t kept up on the Kercher case, so there’s a whole bunch of factual stuff I don’t know. As to how the prosecution met the calunnia burden of proof, it was soon obvious that Patrick Lumumba had nothing to do with the crime, and I imagine (I’m guessing here) that Amanda Knox admitted that she’d made the whole thing up. While it’s not true of the U.S. and apparently Italy, in some jurisdictions, lying is covered, specifically because you don’t have the right to remain silent. The thing I have a problem with is not the lying, but the blaming someone else. Lie all you want about what you were doing. It will probably hurt your case, but it doesn’t really hurt anyone else. I do get implicating someone else if you honestly thought you saw them. It’s really easy to get mixed up. It’s also really easy for an investigation to create false memories, if conducted in a certain way. So my opinion on the actual situation being discussed is nowhere near fixed. After getting so upset about Casey Anthony, I decided not to get invested in a high profile case again until the verdict was in. For all I know, they have actual evidence that she did intend to frame someone because she didn’t like them. EDIT: Frylock’s post is exactly the type of thing that would create false memories. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/123 "2011-10-04T13:04:53Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I don’t take myself to know much at all about them, but what I’ve seen quoted from them doesn’t make me think very highly of them to be honest. They don’t seem concerned with the truth so much as with getting _someone, anyone at all_ blamed and imprisoned for the crime. [Their reaction to the verdict](http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/oct/04/kercher-family-amanda-knox-live-updates?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487): “While we accept the decision that was handed down yesterday and respect the court and the Italian justice system, we do find that we are now left obviously looking at this again and thinking how a decision that was so certain two years ago has been so emphatically over turned now.” “We said all along we don’t want the wrong people put way for a crime they didn’t commit.” “It’s still difficult. We still have no answers.” “For us it feels like we are back to square one” “That’s the biggest disappointment, not knowing still.” I really do look forward to Bo giving a bit more detail about their joining the human race. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/124 "2011-10-04T14:24:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And if someone close to you is ever murdered and the police spend several days interrogating you as a suspect, I’m sure you will do better. I can’t fault her because nothing like that has happened to me, and because I think pretending to know what you would do in that kind of situation is foolish. That’s rubbish and logical bollocks. You can’t just handwave away anything just because you “haven’t been in that situation”. There’s tonnes off stuff I can judge people on even though I haven’t been in that situation. Frankly it sounds like you’ve been so affected by the “poor darling Knox” US media that you are incapable of accepting she may have done anything wrong. (For the record: I’m not sure if she killed her. I have just been fascinated by the case due to the polarised way the media in the US and UK have covered it. Neither media has come out smelling of roses if you ask me.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/125 "2011-10-04T14:33:13Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > You can’t just handwave away anything just because you “haven’t been in that situation”. There’s tonnes off stuff I can judge people on even though I haven’t been in that situation. I didn’t say you can’t judge any situation you haven’t been in. That would be stupid. I said _this_ (referring to her implicating an innocent person while under duress) isn’t a situation I can’t judge because I have no comparable experience. I don’t think you do either, so you’re welcome to your opinion but I think that opinion is worthless. > [@](#): > > Frankly it sounds like you’ve been so affected by the “poor darling Knox” US media that you are incapable of accepting she may have done anything wrong. If you say so. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/126 "2011-10-04T15:55:02Z")
Hey so I haven’t really been following the case, but of what details I gather, there’s a guy already in jail who confessed to the crime? I’m sure Kercher’s parents have been asked about him and why they had believed Knox was responsible for so long. Did they think she ALSO participated in the crime, was the leader of the crime, or that the other guy’s innocent and Knox did it? ---
**Author:** ![Nathan\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@Nathan\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nathan_S)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/127 "2011-10-04T16:13:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Maybe you can clear something up for me. The Italian Supreme Court ruled that the statement she made to police implicating Lumumbia could not be used as evidence in the murder trial since it was obtained via an interrogation that violated her civil rights (she was not made aware she was a suspect before she was interrogated for 14 hours without access to a lawyer, an interpreter, food, water, or a bathroom). How then could it be used as evidence for other charges? I would think if a statement was obtained through unlawful means it wouldn’t be able to be used as evidence on any charge. I haven’t read the Supreme Court opinion, so I can’t do much more than hazard a guess, based on what you’ve written. I’m not sure where the Supreme Court got involved, but I’d guess that it was during the arrest phase. At that stage of the game, though, anything the Supreme Court says will have only have bearing with regard to keeping the accused in jail. They would not, could not, speak to what evidence might or might not be admissible before the trial judge. It is obvious under Italian law, the very ABC of criminal defense, that a statement made when the accused was denied his/her lawyer cannot be used in court. However, if that self - same statement is, in itself, another criminal violation, then this kind of evidentiary preclusion won’t apply. Anyway, if you can come up with a link to the decision in its entirety, I’ll read it and be better able to comment. > [@](#): > > Are you guys (either the Italian populace at large or more specifically members of the various judicial professions in general) as acutely aware of the problem of false confessions as we’ve been over the past few years over here in the US? It’s not that great a problem here. That’s not to say that it never happens, but it’s certainly not frequent. Personally, I’ve never encountered it. The Italian authorities just don’t have that much leverage over people: it’s uncommon to jail people before trial, save for the most serious crimes. And, in any case, a confession given without a lawyer present is likely to be totallyl worthless in a trial. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/128 "2011-10-04T16:26:47Z")
> [@Nathan\_S](#): > > It’s not that great a problem here. That’s not to say that it never happens, but it’s certainly not frequent. Personally, I’ve never encountered it. The Italian authorities just don’t have that much leverage over people: it’s uncommon to jail people before trial, save for the most serious crimes. And, in any case, a confession given without a lawyer present is likely to be totallyl worthless in a trial. Is Knox’s interrogation a complete abberation then? (And did she have a lawyer present?) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/129 "2011-10-04T16:29:12Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Is Knox’s interrogation a complete abberation then? (And did she have a lawyer present?) Capitaine Zombie seems to believe that it was all routine and unremarkable and a basic underpinning of the justice system in every civilized country. ---
**Author:** ![Nathan\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/47e85d/32.png) [@Nathan\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nathan_S)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/130 "2011-10-04T16:39:36Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Is Knox’s interrogation a complete abberation then? (And did she have a lawyer present?) I didn’t follow the case at all and so don’t really know what went on during Amanda Knox’s interrogation. I don’t mean to suggest that the police never, ever interrogate someone without the benefit of counsel. It can happen, but it’s a total cluster - fuck from an investigative point of view when it does. The statement is worthless as evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/131 "2011-10-04T17:30:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Capitaine Zombie seems to believe that it was all routine and unremarkable and a basic underpinning of the justice system in every civilized country. Basic underpinning, no. But looking at the parochialism in the comments of the Knox case (not necessarily here), the “but it doesnt work like that in the States” mentality applied to the case doesnt sound like the smartest way to look at it (or at any case, for that matter). And counsel in the first hours of interrogation isnt necessarily a feature present in all judicial systems. Even in First world nations. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/132 "2011-10-04T19:12:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yup. That wasn’t the last thing I read about this sad story, but it did convince me Knox had nothing to do with what happened. On top of that there was the interrogation, sloppy handling of the evidence, and of course a justice system that didn’t want to admit it screwed up. I can’t fault Knox for making up a story under extreme pressure (that’s my understanding of how it went) and I can’t fault Meredith Kercher’s parents for their opinions about the case (even if they’re incorrect) and their feeling that the murder of their daughter was forgotten in the midst of all the debates and the scaldals. Those things are just too far removed from my experience. Indeed. The prosecutor, IMO, should be sacked. Watching Anderson Cooper last night, they talked about an interview with the prosecutor who, when he arrived on the crime scene and saw Amanda & boyfriend, concluded though a “gut” feeling that they were involved in the murder. That struck me as foolish on the prosecutors part. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/133 "2011-10-04T20:26:17Z")
In the state where I live police interrogations are required to be videotaped in order to prevent exactly the kind of seen here with the confession under duress. It is commonplace for people to confess to crimes they did not commit. The West Memphis 3? Confession. The Guildford 4? They all confessed. The Birmingham 6? You got it. Like the Perugia case, all the defendants claimed they confessed under duress. Yet in this case, the confession is the entire case. There is no motive, the prosecutor’s version of events is absurd, nothing puts Knox or Sollecito at the crime. It’s all down to the confession. There is no mystery here. They have the guy who obviously did it (and gave him a sentence nine years lighter than Knox.) There is no reason to believe the other two defendants had anything at all to do with this unless you are willing to put your faith in the retracted confession. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/134 "2011-10-04T21:07:56Z")
> [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](#): > > It is commonplace for people to confess to crimes they did not commit. The West Memphis 3? Confession. The Guildford 4? They all confessed. The Birmingham 6? You got it. Like the Perugia case, all the defendants claimed they confessed under duress… Maybe that’s a big clue as to why one shouldn’t get mixed up with a gang that has a geographic/numeric nickname… ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/135 "2011-10-04T22:23:38Z")
The thing is-she didn’t confess. ASAIK she has always said she was innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/136 "2011-10-04T23:31:51Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > And I hope the family of the deceased can finally join the human race. The two things that really, really had me scratching my head were: (a) how is the prosecutor who pushed this still allowed to be out of jail, let alone still holding a public office, after the equally ridiculous “Monster of Florence” idiocy he staged? and (b) assuming the answer to (a) is that Italians as a race are just really, really, really different [licensed morons], how does this middle class English family, who you’d think would not be subject to the hotblooded Latin hysterical idiocy, firmly believe that the nonsensical prosecution theory is not just plausible but clearly so true as to support their semi-vendetta against Knox? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/137 "2011-10-04T23:43:02Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Frankly it sounds like you’ve been so affected by the “poor darling Knox” US media that you are incapable of accepting she may have done anything wrong. I supported Knox in the first instance because of the involvement of the prosecutor Mignini, who was an absolute delusional CT idiot in Douglas Preston’s book on his other big case: [http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2008/06/06/meredith-kercher-case-insights-from-the-monster-of-florence/](http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2008/06/06/meredith-kercher-case-insights-from-the-monster-of-florence/) When I heard the details of the similarly tortured prosecution theory for Knox, it strengthened my conviction that the prosecution was an abortion of justice. I never thought she was that pretty or likable – she came across (albeit with details leaked by the prosecution) as a kind of annoying skanky privileged study-abroad college party girl of a type I was all too familiar with in school. Probably a crap annoying roommate to Kercher, which might be one thought for why the family has a negative impression of her. None of that makes her a really plausible murder suspect. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/138 "2011-10-05T00:23:15Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Probably a crap annoying roommate to Kercher, which might be one thought for why the family has a negative impression of her. Good point. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/139 "2011-10-05T03:59:20Z")
What I keep wondering is what happens to Sollecito. Knox gets to go home to Seattle where she will be embraced, but he will be in Italy where he is known as the perverted murderer who fell under the spell of the American whore. I don’t see how he can continue to live there. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906/140 "2011-10-05T05:08:53Z")
> [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](#): > > What I keep wondering is what happens to Sollecito. Knox gets to go home to Seattle where she will be embraced, but he will be in Italy where he is known as the perverted murderer who fell under the spell of the American whore. I don’t see how he can continue to live there. What makes you think that the Italian public necessarily buys the prosecutor’s story, especially after being cleared? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-amanda-knox-involved-in-any-way-with-her-roommates-murder/597906.md?page=8)