# Was Atlantis once a continent, or just an “unusual” once-upon-a-time…Myth? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 15, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899 "2015-01-15T15:51:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/41 "2015-01-15T21:10:19Z")
> [@dunkleosteus](#): > > Plato’s contemporaries make reference to Atlantis as both fact and fiction. News to me. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/42 "2015-01-15T21:11:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What reason did he have to believe that the pyramid was tied to Atlantis, and what evidence afterwards, if any, was found that tied it to Atlantis? More importantly, what reason did he have to believe that the “pyramidal mound” was not a natural formation? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/43 "2015-01-15T21:29:58Z")
I know of Ari Marshall, and of how his initial discovery of a pyramidal lump with holes in the side in 750 feet of water got spun by others into a perfect 650 foot high pyramid in 1500 ft. of water, then into a _crystal_ pyramid. Things like this happen, of course, when there is debate among the searchers as to whether or not to “enhance” the original scant fictional description with those give by “psychic” Edgar Cayce. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/44 "2015-01-15T21:38:08Z")
> [@XT](#): > > The city of Helike was wiped out by a tsunami during Plato’s lifetime and several years before he wrote the dialogues, so it wasn’t some ‘vague historical precepts’ at all. I’m not sure if he was aware of the history of Crete or the loss of the island of Thera, though the Greeks certainly knew about both things, but I don’t think Plato was unaware that there were cities in the ancient world that had been destroyed by the sea. This isn’t anything like someone vaguely resembling Batman, unless you want to try and make the case that the entire Batman myth was based on a collection of real people, more like art imitating reality after the fact. That a city was destroyed within Plato’s era of knowledge is of no particular significance; one or another was destroyed by a natural disaster within almost any lifetime of the era. That this city represented some nearly godlike advanced civilization that was destroyed for their hubris is the allegorical/fictionalized part, and what drives the whole Atlantis nonsense. No one would much care about a fishing village, working port or even a rich suburb getting wiped out. It’s the entirely fictional component about “Atlantis” being some promethean super-society that compels the nutty belief in its reality. ---
**Author:** ![Watchtower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/67e7ee/32.png) [@Watchtower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Watchtower)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/45 "2015-01-15T21:45:16Z")
In posting the thread, perhaps I did not take in consideration just how many of you were going to be serious or just Jokers, and therefore just opponents to the Batman. But perhaps Santa Clause, since we all know he lives at the north-pole, was, indirectly, appropriate to the subject, because Atlantis has even been hinted as one possible location. I’m going to disregard and forgive anyone taking pokes at me. I’m only interested in serious discussions. And if the Moderator of this thread, if there is one, finds it appropriate to move the thread elsewhere on the board, that will be fine with me. I guess since I’m new here, you people must have some sort of, unwritten, initiation process before being admitted. And that is why I’m being picked apart, my OP, that is. I guess some of you are really believers of homeopathy, and not just the poster with the “oyster.” He does not take in consideration that, sometimes, an oyster will contain a beautiful pearl; so do not cast pearls before swine, as a wise baby grew up to say. Some of you, whether you know it, or not, are doctors. You fight the disease of the mind of ignorance with ignorance. One of the first key points a medical student learns in homeopathy is that one must fight disease with simile, and not opposites, and therefore they apply the rule of “Like cures Like.” ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/46 "2015-01-15T21:50:58Z")
[QUOTE=Amateur Barbarian] That a city was destroyed within Plato’s era of knowledge is of no particular significance; one or another was destroyed by a natural disaster within almost any lifetime of the era. [/QUOTE] It was wiped out by essentially the same general method that the supposed Atlantis was wiped out, and it wasn’t just any old fishing village but a major city. And it was destroyed only a few years before he wrote his dialogues, so I think it’s significant as a baseline for the story. > [@](#): > > That this city represented some nearly godlike advanced civilization that was destroyed for their hubris is the allegorical/fictionalized part, and what drives the whole Atlantis nonsense. No one would much care about a fishing village, working port or even a rich suburb getting wiped out. It’s the entirely fictional component about “Atlantis” being some promethean super-society that compels the nutty belief in its reality. Well, most of the ‘godlike advanced civilization’ parts were bolted on after the original story, not by Plato. It’s obvious the Plato was trying to teach a lesson with this story and so took something (or many somethings) from the historical record (i.e. a city being wiped out by the sea) and bolted on some additional details in order to tell the story he wanted to tell. Like I said, more like Harry Turtledove than Stan Lee (or Bob Kane if we are talking about Batman) which is complete fiction. At any rate, I think we are quibbling over details (something we both probably enjoy to no end :p). I don’t think either of us believes that we are going to one day find a plaque on some underwater sunken city saying Here Be Atlantis! in some ancient script. 😉 Which isn’t to say we might not find ancient sunken cities, towns or villages in the Med, Black Sea or elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/47 "2015-01-15T21:56:09Z")
Hoo, boy. Don’t care about your forgiveness. Can you give us any evidence for the existence of Atlantis? Baring that, can you name a serious scientific expedition dedication to finding information about the location of Atlantis-an expedition based on the original writings and not the fever dreams of people born centuries later? By the way, real medical students learn _nothing_ from homeopathy, because homeopathy isn’t covered in med school. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/48 "2015-01-15T22:05:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So what? Real men have jumped off of tall buildings. Does that mean we should start taking tales of Superman seriously? As far as this silly “myth becoming reality” is concerned, if I find a penny, and the tale is passed down from friend to acquaintance that I found some coins, and from acquaintance to stranger that I found a wad of cash, and so on and so on until it is “known” far and wide that I have struck it rich…myth _stays_ myth, and I still have only a penny in my pocket. Welcome to the Wonderful World of Reality, my friend. What’s your damage, Czarcasm? Boffking was absolutely right. Having lived on Long Island and in New Jersey for most of my life, I have seen firsthand how severely hurricanes and unchecked erosion can affect the seashore. Do you have any idea how much effort and money is spent trying to keep the east end of Long Island from washing out to sea? It is entirely plausible to me that some combination of storms, earthquakes, and erosion could cause an island, even a rather large one, to disappear in a relatively short period of time. Even if it took a couple of hundred years, that’s still a short enough time for people to pass down stories of the island over there that used to be big, but is getting smaller and smaller, and eventually vanishing. Over time and with exaggeration, that story could have easily become the story of the lost continent of Atlantis. ---
**Author:** ![Watchtower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/67e7ee/32.png) [@Watchtower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Watchtower)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/49 "2015-01-15T22:10:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What reason did he have to believe that the pyramid was tied to Atlantis, and what evidence afterwards, if any, was found that tied it to Atlantis? Your train of thought is underwater. You wanted one research expedition; I gave it to you. The details and outcome of that search are irrelevant. Objection overruled. However you may, as the OP stated, use any data to convey your opinion as to; is it real, or a myth? Also you have to take in consideration such actions as this expedition, along with any other you may know about, to explain your opinion as to why people are lured into the tale. You rascal, you already had one, and you were just testing me! ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/50 "2015-01-15T22:12:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Hoo, boy. > > Don’t care about your forgiveness. Can you give us any evidence for the existence of Atlantis? > Baring that, can you name a serious scientific expedition dedication to finding information about the location of Atlantis-an expedition based on the original writings and not the fever dreams of people born centuries later? > . The OP asked a perfectly reasonable question - what is the appeal of the Atlantis myth. The fact that he seems to think Atlantis is real does not mean that it’s not an interesting question worthy of discussion. If the thread offends you so badly, there is no reason you need to read it. **Watchtower:** Why do YOU believe Atlantis is real? What appeal does it hold for you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/51 "2015-01-15T22:15:11Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > What’s your damage, Czarcasm? Boffking was absolutely right. > > Having lived on Long Island and in New Jersey for most of my life, I have seen firsthand how severely hurricanes and unchecked erosion can affect the seashore. Do you have any idea how much effort and money is spent trying to keep the east end of Long Island from washing out to sea? > > It is entirely plausible to me that some combination of storms, earthquakes, and erosion could cause an island, even a rather large one, to disappear in a relatively short period of time. Even if it took a couple of hundred years, that’s still a short enough time for people to pass down stories of the island over there that used to be big, but is getting smaller and smaller, and eventually vanishing. Over time and with exaggeration, that story could have easily become the story of the lost continent of Atlantis. Have you read what little there is of the story of Atlantis, in context? ---
**Author:** ![Watchtower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/67e7ee/32.png) [@Watchtower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Watchtower)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/52 "2015-01-15T22:38:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Hoo, boy. > > Don’t care about your forgiveness. Can you give us any evidence for the existence of Atlantis? > Baring that, can you name a serious scientific expedition dedication to finding information about the location of Atlantis-an expedition based on the original writings and not the fever dreams of people born centuries later? > > By the way, real medical students learn _nothing_ from homeopathy, because homeopathy isn’t covered in med school. I think you have misunderstood on a few points. The thread was not posted by me as to making a stand, and then defend the position against all comers. Read it carefully. I’m going to be a voter just like any one else here. I’m looking for a friendly exchange of thoughts. Yet, you want to be an ardent adversary. You got it wrong. Also, not that it matters on the thread; check your facts before shouting. Check all med schools around the world, as Homeopathy is still around in certain countries. Perhaps this will help the thread. Logically, on what basis has the tale existed for so long? Why would newspapermen consider it as very important if Atlantis, or something of the kind, would turn out to be true? Is it to prove Plato had some special insight into the event, or is it the geological portion of it. Perhaps they also considered that it would be very newsworthy if a lost civilization not know to current history/science, could be found. If the tale of Atlantis had originated from someone else than Plato, but from that same period, would it have made any difference as to the longevity it? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/53 "2015-01-15T22:48:52Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Well, you’re the one that appears to have the extreme claim that Atlantis was real, you’re going to have to bring far more substantial evidence than “people like the myth”. > > Otherwise, by that standard, Batman is real. That’s a filthy lie. Nobody LIKES Batman; they’re just afraid of him. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/54 "2015-01-15T22:52:07Z")
> [@Watchtower](#): > > Perhaps this will help the thread. Logically, on what basis has the tale existed for so long? Why would newspapermen consider it as very important if Atlantis, or something of the kind, would turn out to be true? Is it to prove Plato had some special insight into the event, or is it the geological portion of it. Perhaps they also considered that it would be very newsworthy if a lost civilization not know to current history/science, could be found. If the tale of Atlantis had originated from someone else than Plato, but from that same period, would it have made any difference as to the longevity it? Of course who told of Atlantis and why the story was told matters as to whether we should take the story seriously! BTW, why does it matter what “newspapermen” think about this? What special insight do they have on this? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/55 "2015-01-15T22:57:52Z")
As my Phaseolus counterpart has noted, it is not unreasonable that a coastal civilization existed on some island or small continent, and was destroyed by a great flood. Perhaps a few survived this episode, and it was passed down over millenia to the rest of humanity. There was, after all, something of a oceanic deluge some 10,000 years ago. Several major religions described this event, and even went so far as to suggest it wiped out everything that existed. Were these mythologies born of an Atlantean cataclysm? To speak with resounding reassurance that this did not occur smacks of superciliousness. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/56 "2015-01-15T23:04:50Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > There was, after all, something of a oceanic deluge some 10,000 years ago. Several major religions described this event, and even went so far as to suggest it wiped out everything that existed. Were these mythologies born of an Atlantean cataclysm? > > To speak with resounding reassurance that this did not occur smacks of superciliousness. To speak of it as fact is nonsense. There is basically one flood mythos, which was repeated seriatum by several others, adapted to local conditions and features each time. Whatever fragment of history Plato may have been inspired by, the fact is that “Atlantis” stems from brief, allegorical mentions in a context very different from a historical accounting of a vanished supercivilization. EVERYTHING ELSE is an invented addition, most of it dating from the 19th century or so. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/57 "2015-01-15T23:14:19Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > To speak of it as fact is nonsense. There is basically one flood mythos, which was repeated seriatum by several others, adapted to local conditions and features each time. > > Whatever fragment of history Plato may have been inspired by, the fact is that “Atlantis” stems from brief, allegorical mentions in a context very different from a historical accounting of a vanished supercivilization. EVERYTHING ELSE is an invented addition, most of it dating from the 19th century or so. Much of mythology is allegorical, but this does not mean it is not founded on historical events. For example, the Homerian city of Troy was long considered mythological. [Until some dude discovered the ruins.](http://www.ancientgreece.com/s/Troy/) ---
**Author:** ![Watchtower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/67e7ee/32.png) [@Watchtower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Watchtower)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/58 "2015-01-15T23:18:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Have you read what little there is of the story of Atlantis, in context? Thanks to both Green Bean and you. I will use the words that evaded me from GB and join them with yours, add mine, and then I think it is pretty close to what I meant as far a “lure” in OP. Therefore: Why do some people, even highly educated ones, consider as entirely plausible that Plato told us true? Have these people read what little there is of the story of Atlantis, in context? And I add: Does anyone notice all the apparent inconsistencies in the details of the topological descriptions given by Plato? Why would a man so obsessed with truth, be wanting to, intentionally, make us believe that what looks, walks, and quacks like a myth is a true story? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/59 "2015-01-15T23:21:57Z")
> [@Watchtower](#): > > And I add: Does anyone notice all the apparent inconsistencies in the details of the topological descriptions given by Plato? Why would a man so obsessed with truth, be wanting to, intentionally, make us believe that what looks, walks, and quacks like a myth is a true story? Um…you _do_ realize that Plato was a philosopher, not an historian, right? Read what he says of Atlantis, in context, and it’s astoundingly clear he was using allegory to make a philosophical point. ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899/60 "2015-01-15T23:23:06Z")
> [@Watchtower](#): > > If I’m not mistaken about the exact date, in the early 1950s a group of English newspapermen voted the “resurgence” of Atlantis as the fourth most important news story they could imagine—five places ahead of the Second Coming of Christ. Astronomers have bestowed the name “Atlantis” (along with many others from Classical mythology) upon an area on the planet Mars. The Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution called the little ship it explored with the Atlantis, and the name has served as title for several periodicals, a theatrical company, hotels in Miami and Bermuda, a casino in Reno, and a host of several establishments. Even Chicago was not spared, as in 1951 the Minsky’s Burlesque show at the Rialto Theatre included an aquatic strip-act called “Atlantis, The Sea-Nymph. There are many more, but too many to mention. You get the idea! > > I stated “unusual,” because it is an unfinished account, and also because it has not been considered a myth by many, even today, as there are historical and scientific speculations still going on; not to mention costly field research in trying to locate and identify the remains of Atlantis. > > Why so much dedication by the masses, many highly intelligent, to the legend; what is the lure? And why all this recent hype of some discoveries, claiming they are turning a myth into a reality? > > The posting of personal opinions for our debate should be based on the historical and scientific sides of the question. No tale will be considered too far-fetched; let your imagination run wild, if you will participate. Your personal inferences for voting as to, myth or reality can begin with and stem from hypothesis to hypothesis, or from any combination of hypothesis and any known historical and scientific data available to anyone of us. Plato, the guy who originally wrote the story said it is fiction. To believe it would be as silly as believing HG Wells really made a Time Machine! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-atlantis-once-a-continent-or-just-an-unusual-once-upon-a-time-myth/709899.md?page=4)