Please name one, and explain how his education has prepared him to expound on the literal truth of what Plato said. This would be one of the citations people request when they say, “Cite?”
Ask Cecil, he is a newspaper man, he started this site, and he claims to be very smart, to boot.
The answer to this is you have to put the story in the context of who and what Plato was, and what he was intending the story to do, which was to teach a lesson to his students. Sort of like the parables of Jesus…or Mohammad for that matter…they are stories designed to teach the student something and only vaguely (or not at all) resembling real events or history. I’m pretty sure Plato did know about things like Thera, and my own theory is he used that and other stories of lost cities to wrap his own message around. The key though is not the story of Atlantis, but what it teaches his intended audience. I think you (and others, sometimes very bright others) are trying to focus on this as a history lesson, which totally misses the point.
So, since you want a vote, it’s a parable, a story intended to teach various lessons that has turned into a myth as people have told and retold and lost sight of the original point of the whole exercise.
Just wait! Read the initial portion of the Timaeus, and that ancient Egyptian priest will set you right, just as he did Solon, who had the same belief; One flood only. And if the priest convinced Solon, one of the wisest man know to have existed on the “face” of the earth, “flat or not,” you will be just a pushover for him.
Boy do I realize that he is a philosopher! Not an historian, you say? I wonder! You say it’s astoundingly clear he was using allegory? Well that, perhaps, is the point. Are you perchance a philosopher? If it is so very clear to you, you must. But don’t ask all those other philosophers that disagree; some say that Plato is other than clear. Some say that there is a hidden teaching within his works. Without the key it’s hard to decipher. That is what many experts say. Anyway, your observation, if clearly true, then why all the lure, still? Especially in modern times, with all the tech we have to discount possibilities that others before could not; like deep ocean scanning of the bottom of the Atlantic, or anywhere else it has been said to have gone down.
When asked about it Cecil wrote:
Got that? It was a story, and a character in the story said the legend had been told two hundred years earlier by Solon to an unnamed Egyptian sage. Basically, your provinance for this tale rests on 200 year old hearsay from a fictional character.
I’m very interested in reading what these people have to say. Please share.
Several reasonable explanations have been provided in this thread so far. I’m sorry you do not find them compelling. May I ask why that is?
What “many experts”? If you want to refer to so-called “experts” when it comes to backing up something you have to say, would you mind doing a little less hysterical hand waving and a little more naming of names? Who are these “experts”, and what are they experts of?
No comments required. For now, it’s not about me and any proof that I’m to bring; I have not cast my vote, nor passed judgement on anyone contrary to my opinion; and I wont either. A quick search on the net, on your part, will suffice to curb your appetite. I made it clear in one or more posts that I just “raised my hand” and asked the questions. If the teacher(s) do not know, what makes you think I know? Anyway are you disputing that there are not, or have not, been anyone of a certain intelligence that has retained the story of Atlantis plausible? And then you want me to justify the credential of these intellectuals? You got be kidding me? If I had those credential myself, and I would need them to make the assessment you want me to make, would I be here passing my time with you? And for free, to boot?
Useless.
I think you need to give us something more solid to go on. It’s like asking “Why do some people vote for Democrats?” Well, tell us who some people are, and then maybe we can tell you, but don’t expect that there’s going to be a universal for all of the people who vote for Democrats. Otherwise, it’s just a giant list of what-ifs for why some hypothetical person might do that.
But I will offer two simple observations:
- Headlines: if you discover the lost site of Podunk, Sumeria, no one cares. Merely searching for Atlantis is enough to get you in the news.
- Mental illness: Sanity and intelligence are independent variables. There are people who are both smart and crazy.
To your second question: You mention Plato being obsessed with truth, but Plato was also the one to talk about shadows in caves and Platonic ideals. Plato was very aware that there was “truth” as an imperfect everyday incarnation of an idea and there was “TRUTH” as the underlying idea behind it. I can draw a “circle” to communicate the idea of “CIRCLE” to you, but nothing I draw will ever be a perfect circle.
Atlantis is put forward as “truth” which is merely an allegory for “TRUTH” which is his point about society, government, Greek superiority, etc. I don’t think Plato expected that his readers would have trouble distinguishing the two categories of truth.
Shit!!! I gave away the clue to soon. I did not think you would take me up on my recommendation. Gosh darn it. You must be one of those here fighting ignorance the old fashion way; you take others opinions too seriously. And don’t forget, never kiss a gift horse in the mouth. You are standing on Atlantis right now, if you happen to be, right now, in the good old US of A. Home to batman and superman, two of our real heroes. They sure make certain that our Republic, as in Plato’s Republic, is home to justice, liberty, and the place to pursue happiness. And if Cecil is so darn smart and knows it all, why is he not one guarding our Republic, as he should?
Hey! Stop with the circles already, as you are the one going round. The game is over; Czarcasm gets the tootsie roll.
Suggest any good ones?
If you were just looking for opinions, IMHO would have been a better forum choice that the debating forum.
Had you been looking for straight up facts, you should have gone to General Questions.
At this point, I think that IMHO will be a better fit.
[ /Moderating ]
Of course Batman is real, he founded the city of Melbourne.
Gotta admit, Czarcasm, you’re sounding a tad aggressive. Please rein that in a bit.
Now that we’re in this forum, no problem.
But we generally draw the line somewhere rather short of “…Thus Aphrodite and Ares were real,” and even short of “…thus Achilles was real.”
Hold on! First Batman, now you are implying that Aphrodite, Ares AND Achilles might not be real?? But…but I freaking saw the movie! :eek: