# Was Audie Murphy Gay? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994 "2011-08-08T21:30:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/41 "2011-08-09T02:18:08Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I laughed out loud at the name “Roxanne”. I had no idea that name went back to ancient times. According to ancient historians, she walked the streets for money. She didn’t care if it was wrong or if it was right. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/42 "2011-08-09T02:30:06Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > It’s an extremely complicated matter. Bisexuality carried no stigma at the time SO LONG AS you were never ever the penetrated; if you had sex with an equal then essentially you could dry hump all you wanted, with a slave you could do whatever you wanted to, but of course you were still expected to marry and beget children. Alexander’s father Philip is known to have enjoyed the sexual company of boys and men, but his primary interest was women, while Alexander on the other hand seemed to like men far more than women. > > His dearest friend was [Hephaestion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestion) and their love for each other was legendary. There are many stories of Alex’s regard for him- for example, when Alexander received the family of the conquered emperor Darius II they entered his tents and, seeing Hephaestion ,who was taller and more “kingly” to the Persian concept, they mistook him for Alexander and prostrated themselves before him. Several people gasped and a few laughed at their faux pas, but Alexander put his arms around Hephaestion and said “Don’t worry, he’s _also_ Alexander”, basically saying “he’s as much a part of me as I am”. An ancient joke said that “the only battle Alexander ever lost was between Hephaestion’s thighs”, implying they went all the way. > > Alexander referred to Hephaestion as his Patroclos, from the friend and lover of Achilles. Alexander was a huge fan of the Iliad and the Odyssey and slept with a copy of them under his bedding, and he would certainly have known of the homoerotic nature of the Achilles:Patroclos relationship. > > They were not a monogamous couple. Later Alexander fell for a eunuch sex-toy of the late Persian emperor Darius II and he became not only Alex’s concubine but frequent consort. His men approved; when Bagoas won a dancing contest and Alex decided to show some propriety by not kissing him on the lips as he gave him his prize his men shouted “Kiss him! Kiss him! Go on!”, and he did to their applause. Bagoas was never an advisor or anything more than a sex-toy (literally a sex slave) but he seems to have been extremely enamored of him, though Hephaestion was his first and greatest love. > > Alexander married at least two women. The first was Roxanne, an Afghan- a diplomatic alliance undertaken because then as now Afghanistan with its countless caves and nomadic warriors was damned near impossible for an outsider to subdue and he needed an alliance with a very powerful clan. The second was Stateira, the daughter of the former emperor Darius II, which cemented his claims to the Persian Empire; Hephaestion married Stateira’s sister so that their children would be blood to Alexander’s, basically as close as he could come to having kids with Hephaestion. > > When Hephaestion died Alexander very nearly went mad. He killed the doctors who had treated him (even though he was generally known for mercy and there wasn’t much the doctors could have done), he went into a deep depression, he ordered the best embalmers and constructed the largest and most elaborate and expensive funeral pyre in history- 30 stories high, hundreds of ships and chariots and gilded everything, something so expensive that even Alexander was considered nuts to pay for something that excessive. It took months to build and then he burned it with Hephaestion’s mummified remains. Alexander had pretty much danced at the funeral of his father and he had lost many advisors and soldiers who were close to him but this was when his men feared for his sanity, and his own life began a sharp decline after Hephaestion’s death: he drank more, was more reclusive and morose, and never stopped crying for Hephaestion. > > When he died at least one of his two wives, Roxanne, was pregnant. By some accounts they both were, but accounts agree that Roxanne promptly murdered Stateira and her son, born a few months after his death, was his only legitimate child. (There were accounts of others but mainly from people seeking some claimant to rally around as his empire quickly fell apart; they even placed his mentally retarded brother on the throne in a futile attempt to hold his dominions together.) > > I don’t know, but apparently it involves a riding crop and a helmet. So, the proof that Alexander was gay…??? Cites will do… hh ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/43 "2011-08-09T02:45:29Z")
Audie Murphy got drunk in a bar one night in Los Angeles. He was feeling rowdy so he got in a fight with very man in it, 86 in total, simultaneously kicking all their asses. He then proceeded to sleep with them one by one. When it was over, they had all turned gay and he was still straight. True story. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/44 "2011-08-09T02:52:47Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Those are definitely “very possibly the last eyes you’ll ever see” eyes. Didn’t get to the eyes. Saw all the ribbons. On a light colonel? Good enough for me to be scared. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/45 "2011-08-09T03:02:54Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Audie Murphy got drunk in a bar one night in Los Angeles. He was feeling rowdy so he got in a fight with very man in it, 86 in total, simultaneously kicking all their asses. He then proceeded to sleep with them one by one. When it was over, they had all turned gay and he was still straight. True story. And that was STILL less badassed than the action that won him the Medal of Honor. PLUS the others that won him the DSC, two Silver Stars, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. > **[Audie Murphy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Murphy#Awards_and_honors)** > > Audie Leon Murphy (20 June 1925 – 28 May 1971) was an American soldier, actor, and songwriter. He was widely celebrated as the most decorated American combat soldier of World War II, and has been described as the most highly decorated enlisted soldier in U.S. history. He received every military combat award for valor available from the United States Army, as well as French and Belgian awards for heroism. Murphy received the Medal of Honor for valor that he demonstrated at age 19 for Murphy... ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/46 "2011-08-09T03:06:24Z")
Pro Wrestler Pat Patterson is widely known to be gay, and he was a tough customer, in and out of the ring. Former baseball player Mike Piazza is rumored to be gay, but I don’t know if that’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/47 "2011-08-09T03:07:13Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > So, the proof that Alexander was gay…??? The proof is that he fucked dudes. > [@](#): > > Cites will do… > > hh The citations are from ancient historians like Plutarch. ---
**Author:** ![medicated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@medicated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medicated)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/48 "2011-08-09T03:15:33Z")
Something to consider: when someone is saying that a gay person can’t be a real man, there’s a very good chance that little things like evidence won’t persuade. No true Scotsman, etc. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/49 "2011-08-09T04:00:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The proof is that he fucked dudes. > > The citations are from ancient historians like Plutarch. Who was only 300 years younger than Alexander… Proof enough for me!!! hh ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/50 "2011-08-09T04:27:57Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Who was only 300 years younger than Alexander… > Proof enough for me!!! > > hh [Moderating] Glad to hear that, since your comments aren’t contributing any significant information to this thread. Let’s refrain unless you have an actual point to make. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/51 "2011-08-09T04:28:49Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Who was only 300 years younger than Alexander… > Proof enough for me!!! > > hh The primary sources are lost- they burned at Alexandria and unraveled elsewhere. What we have left are later histories that used them as sources. This is common in ancient (and not so ancient) history. If you discount as invalid anything written after he lived then you might as well doubt there was an Alexander the Great who conquered Greece and Persia and parts of India since there’s no primary account of it. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/52 "2011-08-09T04:41:24Z")
To forestall any theory that historians centuries later they would add in his male:male relationships to try and tarnish his reputation, far from. Alexander was revered by historians centuries later- they didn’t seek to dishonor him and he was- literally- worshiped as a god in some lands centuries after his death. Caesar paid homage to his mummy in Egypt, the Maccabees and Herodian kings of Israel named several of their sons after him and members of his inner circle, places proudly boasted any connection to him or to his generals, the Ptolemies and other houses manufactured biological relationships to him even if they were illegitmate, his statues were everywhere as were cities named Alexandria, Cleopatra was named for [relatives who were named for] his sister, and pretty much every person in the Roman Empire who had even the slightest knowledge of the world would likely have known his name even if they didn’t know exactly who he was and what he did. By the time of Plutarch and Curtius male:male sexual pair-bonding was no longer seen as an ideal as it had been under the Greeks but neither was it something to be particularly ashamed of so long as it was within certain boundaries. Alexander’s would not likely have been mocked, and the fact his two most passionate relationships had been with a man and with a eunuch were just seen as part of his life, probably no more or less important than the names of his wives and the fact he claimed descent from Heracles or the names of his favorite horse and his favorite dog (both of whom he named cities for) would have been. It was part of who he was, no more or less important than George Washington having a rich wife named Martha and a crush on Sally Fairfax are to his story. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/53 "2011-08-09T06:34:58Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Who was only 300 years younger than Alexander… > Proof enough for me!!! > > hh Yeah there is no proof that Alexander the Great was gay (in as much as the modern term had any meaning back then), or that he invaded Persia. Ancient sources (written long after his death) are quite clear on both matters, but there is no categorical “proof” of either. ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/54 "2011-08-09T10:35:38Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > … > The kind of people who claim that gay men aren’t “real men” are also usually people who think of themselves as patriotic, and venerate the military, so it’s especially damning to these peoples’ rhetoric to bring up examples of gay men who would otherwise be the kind of men they’d greatly admire. > > I think that being tough is only one part of being a “real man” - you also have to be compassionate, thoughtful, charitable, respectful, and able to see the good in other people even if you don’t agree with them. But, for many people, “real man” just equals “hard-assed” and, rather than trying to change those peoples’ ingrained notions of masculinity, it’s better just to show them that gay men can be hard-assed motherfuckers too. Very well put, sir! 🙂 I don’t really have anything pertinent to add. Just wanted to say that I find this to be a very interesting and enlightening thread. 🙂 As for the OP’s question, I’ve never heard anything alluding to Audie Murphy being gay. And for the record, IMHO being “gay” does not make someone a “bad” person, or any less manly/masculine than a strictly heterosexual male. I’ve personally known a couple of “poofy fairies” that would daintily and limp wristed as you could wish for, (yet, very efficiently and with great enthusiasm) dig out your eyeballs and skull fuck you, at the least sign of provocation or perceived threat to themselves or a loved one. :eek: Likewise, I know some “_real_” men (ie: strictly heterosexual) that will get tears in their eyes and cry for Momma, when things just _ **look like** _, they’re going to get a little dicey. 😛 IMHO, _ **who** _ a person has sex with, \*\*_does not_ \*\* make that person, a man. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/55 "2011-08-09T14:36:44Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I think that being tough is only one part of being a “real man” - you also have to be compassionate, thoughtful, charitable, respectful, and able to see the good in other people even if you don’t agree with them. While I agree with this, and will even add that adhering to this definition requires tremendous cerebral effort at times, I am compelled to point out it is also inaccurate, strictly speaking. Language is a funny thing in that the meaning of any given word/term is what the majority believes it is. You and I may agree on the definition, but we’re up against a culture packed with rednecks who view the above qualities as those which define a pussy. And who will gladly accept pounding you into a greasy spot as evidence of their point. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/56 "2011-08-09T17:39:20Z")
I suspect that part of the definition of a “real man”, for some folks, is (like in the movie “Rustler’s Rhapsody”) a _confident heterosexual"_. Never heard of Audie Murphy being gay. If he was, he doesn’t lose his MoH, and deserves respect regardless. Edit: By that, I mean being homosexual has no bearing on the courage or physical strength type of “manly virtues”. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/57 "2011-08-09T17:56:36Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Didn’t get to the eyes. Saw all the ribbons. On a light colonel? Good enough for me to be scared. 19 years of service, flying 90 combat missions in Iraq, Afghanistan and Kosovo. His decorations include the Meritorious Service Medal, nine Air Medals, Aerial Achievement Medal, five Air Force Commendation Medals, Navy Commendation Medal, two Air Force Achievement Medals, two Outstanding Unit Awards with Valor, Kosovo/Afghanistan/Iraq Campaign Medals, and Korea/NATO/GWOT Service Medals. I’m sure if I looked around some, I could find an even badder-ass, but seriously is anyone other than a complete idiot going to say [this guy](http://www.sldn.org/page/-/images/fehrenbach/fehrenbach-jet.jpg) is not a “real man”? Somehow I doubt that even the Congressional Medal of Honor would be enough proof of “real man” status. ---
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/58 "2011-08-09T18:00:32Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Pro Wrestler Pat Patterson is widely known to be gay, and he was a tough customer, in and out of the ring. > > Former baseball player Mike Piazza is rumored to be gay, but I don’t know if that’s true. No cite for Pat Patterson, but Mike Piazza has VEHEMENTLY denied this rumor, to the point of calling a press conference to refute it. So if the point is to cite gay men or women that are not only doing heroic things but also doing it proudly as a gay person, Piazza would not fit either category. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/59 "2011-08-09T19:02:32Z")
[QUOTE=Chastain86] Mike Piazza has VEHEMENTLY denied this rumor, to the point of calling a press conference to refute it. [/QUOTE] Piazza married a Playboy Playmate, for what it’s worth. Rumors about star athletes and actors being gay are nearly universal… google “John Wayne Gay” or “Tom Brady Gay” or any name you like. If you’re famous, people want to know what you do in the bedroom. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994/60 "2011-08-09T19:10:54Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > When Hephaestion died Alexander very nearly went mad. He killed the doctors who had treated him (even though he was generally known for mercy and there wasn’t much the doctors could have done) Historian (and political flak) Victor Davis Hanson didn’t mention Hephaestion, so I can’t place this passage before or after his death, but Hanson does not appear to be of the opinion Alexander was _merciful:_ [QUOTE=Victor Davis Hanson, Carnage and Culture] Unlike the prior practice or the Greek city-states, there were no shared commands by a board of generals in the Macedonian army—no civilian audits, no ostracism through voting or court trials to oversee the high leadership of the Macedonian army and its king. Alexander as absolute ruler reacted to suspicions of disloyalty with instant sentences of death. An entire generation of Macedonian noblemen was executed by the king they served. The murders increased with the paranoia and dementia of his last years—and with the realization that their services in pitched battle were no longer needed after the collapse of the Achaemenid royal army and the extermination and enslavement of the dangerous Greek mercenaries. The mock trial and subsequent torture and stoning of his general Philotas (330) are well known. Far from being a conspirator, Philotas, who had shared command of the Macedonian cavalry and fought heroically in all of Alexander’s major campaigns—he led the charge of the Companions through the Persian line at Gaugamela—was guilty of little more than arrogance and failure to pass on gossip about possible dissension against the king. With Philotas’s gruesome death, his father, Parmenio (no charges were ever brought against him) was murdered as well. Various other Macedonian nobles disappeared or were killed outright as the army moved farther east from Babylon. The so-called Black Cleitus, who had saved Alexander at the Granicus, was speared to death at a drunken banquet by the intoxicated king himself. After a number of young Macedonian pages were stoned to death for suspicion of sedition (327 B.C.), Alexander executed the philosopher Callisthenes, nephew of Aristotle, who had objected to the king’s practice of _proskynesis_ [requiring men to bow down before him]. After emerging from the Gedrosian desert, Alexander went on a seven-day hinge of drink and revelry, culminating in a series of further execution decrees. The generals Cleander and Sitacles, and later Agathon and Heracon, and six hundred of their troops were killed without warning or legal trial. Purportedly, they were guilty of either malfeasance or insubordination. More likely, they were cut down because of their past involvement in carrying out Alexander’s order to execute the popular Parmenio—a blunder that had not gone down well with the rank-and-file veterans and required some ceremonial show of expiation. Alexander literally decimated an entire corps of 6,000 men—the first clear evidence in Western warfare of that practice of lining up and executing one out of every ten soldiers. Alexander had introduced to the West from the East and South the twin ideas of decimation and crucifixion. In turn, his own original contribution to Western warfare was the carnage of decisive battle when completely divorced from moral restraint and civic audit. Alexander unleashed the idea of shock battle as the annihilation of the enemy, The Greek world had never seen anything quite like him. [/QUOTE] Hanson goes boldly on into Godwin’s Law territory a few paragraphs later, [comparing Alexander to Hitler](http://books.google.com/books?id=XGr16-CxpH8C&pg=PA89&dq=victor+davis+hanson+carnage+and+culture+Alexander+Hitler&hl=en&ei=5X5BTqPjBsyUtwfJyeXFCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false). . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-audie-murphy-gay/591994.md?page=4)