That’s hardcore. Not the same as punk.
I’d call Blondie “Ironic self-aware pop” if I had to pigeonhole them. They were definitely part of the NY punk scene as Wordman notes (and I agree with everything in his post.) Also, some of Blondie’s early stuff had a bit more of an edge to it. And Clem Burke was a monster on the drums, an underrated talent.
I’m not even sure I’d call it anti-disco. Heart of Glass sure sounds like a disco song to me. And it’s very much pro-dance.
Featuring Sarah Jessica Parker as a pudgy nerd!
Okay - got it. Not familiar enough with it as a pop culture reference to have gotten the quote…
**Grossbottom **- I hear what you are saying - when you confine punk to a musical genre and you focus on the listener’s definition. I disagree with some of your categorizations, but that is splitting hairs - the bottom line is that if you define punk as music that sounds a certain way, you can label the box and have a clear discussion about what goes in the box and what stays out.
However, describing what happened as “some NY zine’s definition of punk being whatever they thought was local and cool and alt at the time” completely misses the point - that “NY 'zine” along with the locations of CBGB’s, the Mudd Club or Max’s Kansas City, etc. - were central to making this scene happen. Dude - it’s called “punk” 100% exclusively due to THIS magazine - period.
A couple of observations:
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Nirvana sounds nothing like Pearl Jam, who sounds nothing like Soundgarden who sound nothing like Alice in Chains, Mudhoney, the TAD, etc. Okay - some big guitars, but beyond that, not much. Yet they were all from Seattle, all on Sub-Pop (I think) and are all described as “grunge.” How is that different?
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Manet paints nothing like Monet, who paints nothing like Renioir, Rousseau, Gaugin, Caillebote, Degas, etc. - (okay, you have Pissarro who seems to go through phases where he painted like everybody, but he doesn’t count!). Yet they all had a rebellious mindset against the painting of the day, hung out together and held shows together. A journalist deridedly nicknamed them Impressionists after one of Monet’s paintings and the nickname stuck. “Oh come ON” I hear you say “Manet’s more representational paintings are nothing like Monet’s fuzzy memories. Manet was far more daring because he provoked reaction not by painting fuzzy, but by choosing subjects that were controversial like that picnic with the nude lady - lumping him in with the fuzzy painters doesn’t make sense.” But they DID hang out together, it was THEIR scene, etc. And now if you look at the “offical definition” of Impressionist, you would accept many Hallmark cards, but most of Manet’s stuff would be described using other words - but because they were part of the same scene, he is an Impressionist. Same with Talking Heads and Television (who are amazing and if you don’t own Marquee Moon by them, buy it immediately - sounds like Talking heads meets…oh, The Knack).
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the longer-term question is: which definition of punk will likely hold sway over time - the mindset/social scene-based or the genre of music based? Right now, it seems clear that the music based definition holds, based on most of the posts and the discussion I am engaged in right now. But over time, when punk gets more blended into the pop music scene (and with mallpunk, emo, etc. - it has already been diluted to kiddie strength) I wonder if people will point more to the mindset and some specific punk scenes in NY, London, LA/SF and a few other key places. In other words, right now we are experiencing the fallout after punk exerted its influence on music, but that will blend in and just become another influence, no different from blues, r&b, country, etc., just coming a bit later than them to influence rock/pop.
Okay - back to work. Oh, and **Larry Borgia ** - you are SO right about Clem Burke - just listeing to Dreaming reminds me how great he is…
The Stranglers. The Screamers.
Sometimes even The Clash.
I would consider them punk/New Wave. I know that doesn’t help, but they certainly were punk historically and, but their overall sound is closer to what people think of as New Wave now.
Remember “punk” is not just the Sex Pistols and the Ramones. Does “London Calling” by the Clash sound like a punk album to anyone today? Probably not, but the Clash were undeniably punk. There’s a wider range of music and sound that fall under the “punk” moniker than three chorded, loud, unintelligible and technically imperfect bands.
X had Ray Manazerek on their first record Los Angeles. Modern Lovers had plenty of keyboard on their record, although they may be better put into the category of “proto-punk.”
Very true, but as I’ve heard them identified as a “hippie band” in this very forum, I thought it would be best to stick with The Clash.
Say what?
IMHO, Blondie was plain Pop. Remember that our great nation was still reccovering from the shame of disco and anything that didn’t fit the disco mold needed a new label (other than Pop). The band did wear black and had a kinda Punk background so they got that label, but I would say the timing and sound was more New Wave so they got that label too.
I will never forgive them for producing one of the most over-played disco songs of all.
Just a few year ago, I was told, in complete seriousness by a person who was in his 20s in the 80s, that Blondie invented Rap. Whaa? Yea, see … The song was “Rapture” so they call it “Rap” now …
So, there’s your answer - Blondie was the first Rap band.
Yipes. It was, IIRC, the first song with a rap to reach #1, but Rapper’s Delight preceded it by at least a good year.
They were the first band with a Rap video on MTV.
{bolding mine} Interesting anecdote I read awhile back. It was either Belinda Carlisle or Jane Weidlin (who went by the name Jane Drano in a band before forming the Go-Gos) who said that they wanted to be a pop band but were considered a punk band before their first record contract because of how badly they played.
Even Iggy Pop was known to touch one when no one was looking. Doesn’t matter though because whatever was being played on it wasn’t punk. I think of those times as a really bad Christmas album, a McCartney Wings moment from hell.
If freakin’ sax can be punk (think X-Ray Spex–and if you don’t think they’re punk, we’re not going to agree at all one any of this), then a little synth can be too. I mean, there’s a group of bands from that era that get categorized as “synthpunk,” with the Screamers probably being the most prominent.
My first introduction to Blondie was via a radio station circa 1980. They played Rapture, The Tide is High, Heart of Glass, and maybe a couple of others. All this in a rotation that featured a lot of Eagles, Hank Williams, Jr. and the Charlie Daniels Band.
Maybe Blondie was Country?
I wasn’t talking about Blondie in particular, but punk and new wave in general. And the ethos of punk and new wave was, in general, very much anti-disco. (Remember all the “DISCO SUCKS!” T-shirts?)
Blondie was viewed askance by a lot of folks for going disco.
Excellent point.