# Was Blondie's 'Rapture' the first fem rap? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [November 9, 2002, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-blondies-rapture-the-first-fem-rap/136018 "2002-11-09T12:48:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-blondies-rapture-the-first-fem-rap/136018/21 "2023-03-23T18:02:45Z")
I don’t hear that at all. “Trouble Every Day” is a regular blues rock song like there were hundreds at that time. The vocal range isn’t very great, but it’s clearly singing and not rapping. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-blondies-rapture-the-first-fem-rap/136018/22 "2023-03-23T18:10:21Z")
No probs. To respond to you, though, all music derives from somewhere else, but as a genre, rap (and other musical forms) stands on its own. Jazz was pretty much invented in New Orleans, but it owes some of its derivation to African drumming and dancing. Subsequent forms of jazz owe their roots to the NO tradition, but stand on their own as genres (swing, bop, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-blondies-rapture-the-first-fem-rap/136018/23 "2023-03-23T19:13:20Z")
Yeah, if you’re gonna count that, you need to count the whole tradition of Talking Blues: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/aPrnbGm7jas/hqdefault.jpg "Chris Bouchillon - Talking Blues (1926)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPrnbGm7jas) Even that from 1926 is fairly rhythmic, so, yeah, where is the line drawn? ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-blondies-rapture-the-first-fem-rap/136018/24 "2023-03-23T20:29:15Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > you need to count the whole tradition of Talking Blues: Yep I was going to say that. > [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I’m not versed enough in the history of reggae and rap to know if New York rap was inspired by Jamaican music… …and I thought to myself, I _grew up listening to reggae - but I can’t think of a really early example of toasting_. One quick google later, and look what I found. Crikey! > **[Toasting (Jamaican music)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toasting_(Jamaican_music))** > > Toasting (rap in other parts of the Anglo Caribbean) or deejaying is the act of talking, usually in a monotone melody, over a rhythm or beat by a deejay. It can either be improvised or pre-written. Toasting developed in Jamaica, before it took up that name and being part of the sound system era, a similar sound of it is found in mento and now can be heard over musical styles including ska, reggae, dancehall, dub, grime, hip hop, soca and bouyon music. The combination of singing and toasting is kn... > **Toasting developed in the United States and carried its form to the music of Jamaica** , such as ska, reggae, dancehall, and dub. It also exists in grime music and is traditionally in hip hop. Toasting is also often used in soca and bouyon music. The African American oral tradition of toasting, a mix of talking and chanting, influenced the development of MCing in US hip hop music and in Jamaican toasting. The combination of singing and toasting is known as singjaying. > > **In the late 1950s in Jamaica, deejay toasting was [used] by Count Matchuki. He conceived the idea from listening to disc jockeys on American radio stations.** He would do African American jive over the music while selecting and playing R&B music. Deejays like Count Machuki working for producers would play the latest hits on traveling sound systems at parties and add their toasts or vocals to the music. These toasts consisted of comedy, boastful commentaries, half-sung rhymes, rhythmic chants, squeals, screams and rhymed storytelling. My bold. Not what I was expecting. j ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-blondies-rapture-the-first-fem-rap/136018/25 "2023-03-23T20:47:35Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > “Toasting developed in the United States and carried its form to the music of Jamaica, such as ska, reggae, dancehall, and dub.” Well, mind blown, I didn’t know that and thought that toasting had been invented in Jamaica. I know of the many influences from American rhythm and blues/soul on Jamaican music (mostly from Floyd Bradley’s standard tome about reggae, “Bass Culture”), but this is news to me. Thanks for the discovery. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-blondies-rapture-the-first-fem-rap/136018/26 "2023-03-23T20:57:54Z")
That said… modern rapping (as much as the 70s can be modern) is directly descended from Jamaican toasting and DJ culture. The originators of hip hop were largely Caribbean immigrants holding Jamaican-style block parties with massive sound systems and “MCs” introducing them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-blondies-rapture-the-first-fem-rap/136018.md?page=1)