# Was Bush or Obama a better president for pro-gun people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 5, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855 "2016-08-05T17:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/21 "2016-08-10T16:29:57Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > You’ll have to be more specific. What difference in response are you talking about? If you’re talking about the 1994 AWB, well, you have a Republican controlled congress as a result. The massive increase in gun sales (and attendant boost to gun manufacturers’ market cap). > [@JXJohns](#): > > Simple. It started with Waco, and Ruby Ridge. In '94 the internet and easy mass communication didn’t exist. The AW Ban was passed because the pro gun folks were not organized much beyond the local levels, if that. Once they saw what _could_ happen, guns being banned simply based upon the way that they looked, it lit a fire that is still burning today. The whole pre ban / post ban fiasco from 94-04 showed just how stupid the anti gun forces could be. The era of compromise ended then and there. > > Obama could have been purple and the results would have been the same. Wait until Hillary speaks again about Australian solutions to gun control, or changing any laws in place to be more strict after she is elected. The pro gun side will roar, and I expect her supporters will explain that folks are only in a tizzy because she is a woman. She will only be attempting to pass “reasonable” controls so anyone who disagrees is just a woman hating Trump supporter, just like anyone who disagrees with the current POTUS is a racist. Thanks. The internet and political organization have definitely changed, and that’s a plausible explanation for the difference in reaction. I think that we could add increased political polarization to the mix, too. There used to be more moderate voters, who had an opinion somewhere on the gun control/gun right spectrum, but it was either not very important to them or didn’t align with a particular philosophical stance. I’m not saying that anyone who opposes Obama is racist, or that anyone who disagrees with Hillary is sexist. But there’s certainly a racist/sexist _component_ to the opposition. So, the question is, how large is that component? And I agree with you that most attempts at weapons bans have been foolish political showmanship unlikely to accomplish any of the stated goals of gun control, but I also think that the prevalence of guns in our society has seriously major net negative effects, and I wish there were a politically tractable way to reduce them. But there doesn’t appear to be. So it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/22 "2016-08-10T16:42:58Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > The massive increase in gun sales (and attendant boost to gun manufacturers’ market cap). Then I would say that the ability to organize and communicate more effectively with the internet has driven that more than anything. Anyone in the community was already mass buying in the lead up to the 1994 AWB. There was a large market for “pre-ban” stuff. But what there wasn’t was an ability to communicate that to the people that weren’t already part of the gun community. And really, how did you invest in gun manufacturers in 1994? e-trade wasn’t even a thing (it existed, but not with widespread adoption). There were built in barriers that prevented what is now easy to do. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/23 "2016-08-10T17:45:55Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > … > > I’m not saying that anyone who opposes Obama is racist, or that anyone who disagrees with Hillary is sexist. But there’s certainly a racist/sexist _component_ to the opposition. So, the question is, how large is that component? In my circles (local clubs and statewide organizations) that component is minuscule. A definite case of hating the message regardless of who is delivering it. Whether that holds water nationwide is anyone’s guess. An example locally: A State Senator had stated that he will be introducing [legislation](http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/readers/2016/06/15/orlando-thoughts-prayers-not-enough/85870754/) in 2017 to ban the sale and possession of Assault Weapons in the state of Iowa. Naturally, most pro gun folks are against this as not only have there been very few people killed by any rifles or shotguns in this state, there have been no recorded instances where actual AW’s were used. As you can imagine, our groups are ready to fight this the minute that it introduced. It makes sense that there is significant opposition, correct? Political showmanship and all that? Now I will add to the mix that the state senator is also openly gay. Does that change anything? No. Will we branded homophobic because of our opposition? Count on it. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/24 "2016-08-10T20:27:42Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > It makes sense that there is significant opposition, correct? Political showmanship and all that? Now I will add to the mix that the state senator is also openly gay. Does that change anything? No. Will we branded homophobic because of our opposition? Count on it. I believe you that you’d oppose the legislation regardless of the sexuality of the Senator involved. But it’s also plainly true that there’s quite a lot of overlap between the pro-gun and anti-gay sets of beliefs. So, statistically, you are not a representative sample. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/25 "2016-08-10T20:54:07Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Right. It must be racism. Not the fact that Obama is a Democrat and continually talked of banning guns. Or that his administration kept pushing on ways to increase the sphere of prohibited persons. Hard to imagine, but it’s possible to be against the policies of the Obama administration without being racist. “Continually” talked? When? In his sleep? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/26 "2016-08-10T21:06:23Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Not the fact that Obama is a Democrat and continually talked of banning guns. Or that his administration kept pushing on ways to increase the sphere of prohibited persons. . Cite? Which “prohibited persons”? Look, whenever there was a mass shooting and the polls said the majority wanted some kind of gun control, Obama came out for some mild controls. He’s a politician, bowing to the will of the people. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/27 "2016-08-10T21:26:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Cite? > > Which “prohibited persons”? > > Look, whenever there was a mass shooting and the polls said the majority wanted some kind of gun control, Obama came out for some mild controls. He’s a politician, bowing to the will of the people. Which in turn made him not a good president for pro gun people. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/28 "2016-08-10T21:27:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Which “prohibited persons”? I believe he’s referring the rep-payee issue: [NRA: Social Security Administration Releases Proposed Rulemaking on Disability-Related Gun Ban](https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160429/social-security-administration-releases-proposed-rulemaking-on-disability-related-gun-ban) ETA: or maybe this one regarding vets: [Home - www.independentsentinel.com](http://www.independentsentinel.com/260000-vets-stripped-of-their-gun-rights-with-a-single-va-gun-regulation/) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/29 "2016-08-10T21:32:28Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Which in turn made him not a good president for pro gun people. No, not great, but honestly, he didnt end up doing anything anti-gun. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/30 "2016-08-10T21:52:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > “Continually” talked? When? In his sleep? After Newtown. March 2013 > [@](#): > > [The Assault Weapons Ban, easily the most controversial component of the president’s agenda,](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/12/assault-weapons-ban_n_2859083.html) February 2015 > [@](#): > > [Proposal to ban assault rifle bullet upsets gun supporters](http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/27/news/assault-rifle-bullet-ban-obama-armor/) October 2015 > [@](#): > > [Obama Condemns ‘Routine’ of Mass Shootings, Says U.S. Has Become Numb](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/02/us/obama-oregon-shooting-umpqua-community-college-gun-control.html?_r=0) June 2016 > [@](#): > > [“Being tough on terrorism, particularly the sorts of homegrown terrorism that we’ve seen now in Orlando and San Bernardino, means making it harder for people who want to kill Americans to get their hands on assault weapons that are capable of killing dozens of innocents as quickly as possible,” Obama said. > A ban on the sale of assault weapons expired in 2004, and both Obama and presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton have called for its reinstatement.](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/283970-president-obama-calls-for-ban-on-assault-weapons-in-weekly) [‘It’s got to stop’: 17 times Obama has pushed for stronger gun control](http://www.politico.com/gallery/2015/08/its-got-to-stop-15-times-obama-has-pushed-for-stronger-gun-control-002064?slide=0) * * * > [@DrDeth](#): > > Cite? > > Which “prohibited persons”? > > Look, whenever there was a mass shooting and the polls said the majority wanted some kind of gun control, Obama came out for some mild controls. He’s a politician, bowing to the will of the people. Yes, he’s a politician - no one said he wasn’t. This line of discussion is about objecting to a politician’s politics without being racist. Because objecting to Obama’s push for gun control isn’t racist. Insinuations that it has to do with his melanin is insulting and asinine. As for prohibited persons - expanding the list to include those on the no fly list, those on the terror watch list, those on [rep payee status](http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/la-na-gun-law-20150718-story.html). And there’s the proposed and scuttled M855 ammo ban mentioned in post #16. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/31 "2016-08-11T05:49:27Z")
When exactly did Obama threaten to take everyone’s guns away, and how did that become a common theme among the gun crowd? There isn’t an ounce of truth in it, but it’s been used to justify shopping sprees for guns and ammo. Hence, “Obama is the best gun salesman ever”. Best medical insurance salesman, okay, but he hasn’t done anything to sell more guns. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/32 "2016-08-11T08:41:03Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > And really, how did you invest in gun manufacturers in 1994? e-trade wasn’t even a thing (it existed, but not with widespread adoption). There were built in barriers that prevented what is now easy to do. Discount brokers started to appear during the 1970s. Charles Schwab and others offered automated telephone trades. Also, mutual funds could invest in gun manufacturers. This is a narrow point, but US capital markets have always been very deep. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/33 "2016-08-11T14:49:57Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > When exactly did Obama threaten to take everyone’s guns away, and how did that become a common theme among the gun crowd? There isn’t an ounce of truth in it, but it’s been used to justify shopping sprees for guns and ammo. Hence, “Obama is the best gun salesman ever”. Best medical insurance salesman, okay, but he hasn’t done anything to sell more guns. When exactly did anyone here say that Obama threatened to take everyone’s guns away and how did thinking that’s what the pro-gun crowd thought become a common theme among the gun control crowd? Strawmanning is fun! Obama supports more gun control than we have now. He supports banning weapons based on how they look. He supports expanding the list of prohibited persons. When there is a threat of an assault weapon ban, more weapons of that type are purchased. Go figure. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Discount brokers started to appear during the 1970s. Charles Schwab and others offered automated telephone trades. Also, mutual funds could invest in gun manufacturers. > > This is a narrow point, but US capital markets have always been very deep. Yes there were ways for non-institutional investors to get into equity markets previously. Are you disputing the point that in 2008 it was much easier for consumers to invest in equities than it was in 1994? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/34 "2016-08-11T14:56:11Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > When exactly did Obama threaten to take everyone’s guns away, and how did that become a common theme among the gun crowd? There isn’t an ounce of truth in it, but it’s been used to justify shopping sprees for guns and ammo. Hence, “Obama is the best gun salesman ever”. Best medical insurance salesman, okay, but he hasn’t done anything to sell more guns. I don’t know that the common theme is that Obama is going to “take _everyone_’s guns away”. I believe that’s called a straw man, but many gun owners recognize that he very much wants to halt the sale of .223 caliber black rifles and the standard magazines that they use. Is it any surprise that people go out and buy the thing in case Obama succeeds in banning their sale? Hence, “Obama is the gun salesman of the year”. The post right above yours includes a link to a slideshow with 17 times that Obama has advocated for stricter gun control. To claim “there isn’t an ounce of truth in it” seems obviously wrong. Did you mean something more narrowly-tailored than I read your post to mean? ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/35 "2016-08-11T15:23:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know that the common theme is that Obama is going to “take _everyone_’s guns away”. I believe that’s called a straw man, but many gun owners recognize that he very much wants to halt the sale of .223 caliber black rifles and the standard magazines that they use. Is it any surprise that people go out and buy the thing in case Obama succeeds in banning their sale? Hence, “Obama is the gun salesman of the year”. I agree Esox’s point is basically silly in the extreme terms he used ‘no truth’ and ‘used to justify gun buying sprees’. Who needs an ‘excuse’ to ‘justify’ buying whatever gun/ammo they like? Such buying accelerates when _those buyers_ think their right to buy might be circumscribed further than it has been. That’s a pretty simple and obvious explanation for the market outperformance of gun/ammo maker stocks in recent years. The acceleration of gun/ammo sales hasn’t been limited though to ‘assault guns’ and ammo they fire, it’s been more general. Clearly a lot of people think there’s some risk of gun control beyond federal ‘assault gun’ ban or restrictions along the lines of ‘no fly’ lists etc. Not all of that comes from Obama, a fair point though again a straw man to say Obama is _the_ reason to begin with. ‘He’s the best gun salesman ever’ is a quip, not really meant to say he’s the sole embodiment of gun control. Some is fear of tighter state regulations which might be ‘grand fathered’ as such laws often are (and which have occurred in some states, though others have further loosened gun control during the Obama years). And some of it is the general buzz in the left media/internet-sphere where it’s very common to read people proposing comprehensive gun bans. And a president at least generally friendly to gun control is in office, who speaks frequently on the need as he sees it to move in the direction of tighter gun control. A lot of politics is about what direction do you want to move, or else status quo is fine. Nobody can ever predict how far they’ll get to where they really want to go, and also standard for politicians who want to change things a lot (in general Obama is one, it’s again unfair to him to say he’s a status quo guy) not to advertise how far they really want to go. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/36 "2016-08-11T19:24:43Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > When exactly did Obama threaten to take everyone’s guns away, and how did that become a common theme among the gun crowd? There isn’t an ounce of truth in it, but it’s been used to justify shopping sprees for guns and ammo. Hence, “Obama is the best gun salesman ever”. Best medical insurance salesman, okay, but he hasn’t done anything to sell more guns. So is this going to be one of those “he doesn’t want to take ALL guns away, so he really doesn’t want to take away guns” argument? Because when he spouts off about banning weapons, which he has done quite a bit, it makes your argument a bit weak. See cites above. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/37 "2016-08-11T19:57:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There’s been _lots_ of legislation (bills), just none that were able to get through the House and Senate for Obama to sign. > > Also, the ATF’s M855 almost-ban, while not necessarily legislation, would certainly have affected the supply of 5.56 ammo throughout the country, so I don’t think it was “pretty stupid” for people to stock up before the proposed rule (which was ultimately abandoned after a firestorm of criticism) had a chance to become law. > > There’s no question in my mind that Bush was a better president for gun rights than Obama, if nothing else because of his SCOTUS nominees. I meant no legislation, in the sense that no actual laws were enacted. And it was pretty stupid for everyone to just go nuts and buy up every round they could find each time that Obama made a gun shape with his fingers, or said “Bang” or that there was a shooting, or anything like that. There had been plenty of attempted (and passed) legislation in earlier administrations, as well as a bunch of heated rhetoric about gun control, but there never was the blind, foolish panic that happened during Obama’s term. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/38 "2016-08-12T01:45:43Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > When exactly did anyone here say that Obama threatened to take everyone’s guns away… Never in this thread, as far as I know, but I wasn’t replying to anyone in particular, just ruminating on the question in the OP. > [@Bone](#): > > …and how did thinking that’s what the pro-gun crowd thought become a common theme among the gun control crowd? Strawmanning is fun! Let’s ask gun owners themselves: > [@](#): > > CNN conducted two surveys of gun owners in 2013 on this question. In January of that year, a narrow majority of gun owners – 53 percent – said they felt the federal government was trying to take away their right to own a firearm. In April – after Obama and Vice President Biden had spent several months fruitlessly trying to convince Congress to expand the background-check program – that figure had increased to 62 percent. > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/08/why-so-many-americans-think-the-government-wants-their-guns/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/08/why-so-many-americans-think-the-government-wants-their-guns/) Note that they didn’t think Obama just wanted to ban a certain kind of gun, but _take away their right to own a gun_. Would you agree that 62 percent is more than just straw? For prime manure-laden straw, take a whiff of this: > [@](#): > > To disagree with the Supreme Court over Heller is to disagree with the right of individual Americans to own firearms. It is to call for abolishing the Second Amendment. There is simply no other way to interpret Clinton’s words, or her intentions. > > [And…] > > Hillary Clinton does want to abolish the Second Amendment. She does want to take your guns away. This is a fact. > > [Trump Is Right: Hillary Clinton Wants To Take Your Guns](http://thefederalist.com/2016/05/09/trump-is-right-hillary-clinton-wants-to-take-your-guns/) From which orifice do you think the writer pulled his “fact”? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/39 "2016-08-12T02:05:30Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > After Newtown. > > March 2013 > February 2015 > October 2015 > June 2016 > > [‘It’s got to stop’: 17 times Obama has pushed for stronger gun control](http://www.politico.com/gallery/2015/08/its-got-to-stop-15-times-obama-has-pushed-for-stronger-gun-control-002064?slide=0) > > * * * > > Yes, he’s a politician - no one said he wasn’t. This line of discussion is about objecting to a politician’s politics without being racist. Because objecting to Obama’s push for gun control isn’t racist. Insinuations that it has to do with his melanin is insulting and asinine. > > As for prohibited persons - expanding the list to include those on the no fly list, those on the terror watch list, those on [rep payee status](http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/la-na-gun-law-20150718-story.html). > > And there’s the proposed and scuttled M855 ammo ban mentioned in post #16. The phrase “continually talked of banning guns” is not remotely supported by these cites. > [@Bone](#): > > Strawmanning is fun! And you do it so artfully! ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855/40 "2016-08-12T02:08:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know that the common theme is that Obama is going to “take _everyone_’s guns away”. I believe that’s called a straw man, but many gun owners recognize that he very much wants to halt the sale of .223 caliber black rifles and the standard magazines that they use. Is it any surprise that people go out and buy the thing in case Obama succeeds in banning their sale? Hence, “Obama is the gun salesman of the year”. > > The post right above yours includes a link to a slideshow with 17 times that Obama has advocated for stricter gun control. To claim “there isn’t an ounce of truth in it” seems obviously wrong. Did you mean something more narrowly-tailored than I read your post to mean? I’m well aware that Obama and Hillary have proposed more gun control. I want to know how that gets translated to “Obama/Hillary wants to repeal the Second Amendment/take away the right to own guns”. Not just some guns, and not just advocate more controls, but actually repeal the Second Amendment and not allow any guns. There’s your strawman if you’re looking for one. (See the numbers above in my reply to Bone.) To reiterate, yes, Obama and Hillary want more controls, but there isn’t an ounce of truth to claims that they’re going to repeal the SA and take away the right to own guns. So my question still stands: When exactly did Obama threaten to take everyone’s guns away, and how did that become a common theme among the gun crowd? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-or-obama-a-better-president-for-pro-gun-people/761855.md?page=3)