# Was Bush really a "fundie"? Also, how smart/dumb was he really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349 "2011-08-28T03:07:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/21 "2011-08-28T13:38:10Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Do you have a cite that the same ambassador also had weekly prayer breakfasts with the president? Do you have a cite that some priest had regular trade talks with the President? I see your point. I still think it was politicking. You’re free to disagree, but if you want to see a real fundamentalist in the White House, elect Rick Perry. Then, IMHO of course, you will understand the difference. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/22 "2011-08-28T14:46:16Z")
The whole “gee shucks” cowboy thing was an act. I do wonder about his constant speech problems though. At some point you have to wonder, like when he makes a complete spectacle of himself and even the audience starts to laugh at him. There’s a fine line between appearing to be being a folksy, down to earth dude and an idiot. His pre-POTUS debates were already referenced. Maybe the stress just really got to him. I recall anecdotes that his whole inner circle laughed at the true believer fundies. Wasn’t that the basis of an entire book by an Asian gentlemen who was on the inside? About how they played the religious community to the hilt with the whole “ZOMG TEH GAYS R ATTACKING” in 2004? I think he was on Bill Maher peddling his wares. Sound familiar to anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/23 "2011-08-28T15:22:47Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I would take Chirac’s recollections with a bucket of salt, Chirac hated Bush (it was mutual). This is precisely why Chirac’s account is credible (btw, he didnt hate Bush but he sure thought the US had elected a total, and dangerous, fool). Chirac didnt use that bit of info during the way more antagonistic phase that followed Bush vaguely trying to get France on board. Showing the world Bush was completely misguided, and blinded by medieval faitytales would have come in handy at that time, and would have vindicated France’s position. Yet the story got out only after both Chirac and Bush were out of office. Sounds more like Chirac holding on an interesting info till both concerned parties are not active anymore (very Gaullian, in a way). ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/24 "2011-08-28T15:34:53Z")
The Chirac story also calls into question Bush’s intelligence (in both discrete senses of that word, although I have to assume here that the intelligence Bush received from the CIA would be better than his own reasoning in this instance.) Wouldn’t you presume that before taking such a tack with a foriegn leader, Bush would have asked the CIA, “Hey, is this Chirac dude a believing, devout Christian, and how do you think he’d react to some rambling gibberish about Gog and Magog and like that?” Way I figure, either the CIA gave him some bad info (unlikely), or Bush never asked (likelier), or the CIA told him “Ix-nay on the Ist-chray” and he decided to roll them dice anyway (my bet.) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/25 "2011-08-28T15:58:49Z")
> **[George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa)** > > George Bush has claimed he was on a mission from God when he launched the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, according to a senior Palestinian politician in an interview to be broadcast by the BBC later this month. By Ewen MacAskill. Bush claimed god told him to attack Iraq. That would seem pretty religious to me. I wonder if he heard voices ? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/26 "2011-08-28T16:01:45Z")
A secondhand account from a vaguely important Palestinian official recalling Bush’s remarks years later, which is unsupported and indeed contradicted by much more relaible accounts of Bush’s words and actions at a hundred other times. Well, I’m convinced. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/27 "2011-08-28T16:04:32Z")
I don’t have a cite for this, but I recall reading an article by a key Republican that GWB was chosen by some of his fellow Governors to run for President precisely because he was the man without ideas. !! Reviewing the Governors, so-and-so was pro-Choice so was out, so-and-so had raised taxes, so was out, et cetera. By elimination they ended up with the Man under the Empty Hat. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/28 "2011-08-28T18:33:45Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And looking at his policies, he never really went the fundo route; he took Cheney on as a VP despite knowing about Cheney’s gay daughter, he allowed Federal Funding for existing stem cell lines and increased funding for AIDS; above and beyond what the right wanted. The stem cell lines that were allowed were defective, near useless ones; which is why they were allowed, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/29 "2011-08-28T21:36:51Z")
Ok, I never thought the day would come when I would be defending W, but that’s baloney. Everything I have read about the stem cell says that W’s instinct was to allow unlimited funding, the compromise was a sop to his base. His sister die of leukemia when he was young which is something that all observers agree affects him even today, in his book he even says hay he thought that this was something that could have saved her. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/30 "2011-08-28T22:00:55Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Ok, I never thought the day would come when I would be defending W, but that’s baloney. Everything I have read about the stem cell says that W’s instinct was to allow unlimited funding, the compromise was a sop to his base. His sister die of leukemia when he was young which is something that all observers agree affects him even today, in his book he even says hay he thought that this was something that could have saved her. Wow, that makes me think even worse of him. To go against his own conscience, against what he knows is right, for the basest political purposes… I was more sympathetic to him when I thought he was just ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/31 "2011-08-28T23:35:39Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Wow, that makes me think even worse of him. To go against his own conscience, against what he knows is right, for the basest political purposes… > > I was more sympathetic to him when I thought he was just ignorant. Well mind he’s President not Emperor. I generally rate GWB favorably as a President (he’s not in my top 5 or anything), and while I don’t agree with limitations on stem cell research when it comes to matters of spending Federal dollars GWB essentially has to compromise. If all politicians were strict absolutists who never accepted deals that didn’t give them 100% of what they believed in nothing would get done. This is how the Tea Party wing of the GOP was acting during the debt ceiling crisis. I also think GWB was under the (mistaken) belief that the existing stem cell lines were going to be very useful for future research, unfortunately that was not the case. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/32 "2011-08-28T23:41:14Z")
People seem to abandon all common sense when discussing GWB and now Barack Obama. Bush was and never will be considered a great President, he will likely be one of the more influential Presidents, yet I have always thought his record (like anyone else) should be examined on its own merits. If you dislike him, he did enough to satisfy you, without resorting to trite and cliched statements about his apparent lack of intellect and smarts (which are kind of hard to reconcile with his success politically) or being a fundo. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/33 "2011-08-29T00:15:22Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > If you dislike him, he did enough to satisfy you, without resorting to trite and cliched statements about his apparent lack of intellect and smarts (which are kind of hard to reconcile with his success politically) or being a fundo. He was throughout his life simply handed positions of political and corporate authority, including the Presidency, despite his consistent failures. His “success” in politics is due to being born to a rich and connected family. Not because of any personal abilities he had. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/34 "2011-08-29T02:26:20Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > He was throughout his life simply handed positions of political and corporate authority, including the Presidency, despite his consistent failures. His “success” in politics is due to being born to a rich and connected family. Not because of any personal abilities he had. Well, he did take a couple businesses down til the Arab oil barons saved him. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/35 "2011-08-29T02:35:20Z")
In intelligence I would say he is above-average-you have to be smart to be President and he could be articulate at times. And he is a faithful Methodist but not a fundist in the accepted definition here-he accepts the basic tenants of Christianity but he certainly is no Jack Chick. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/36 "2011-08-29T02:36:20Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Pawlenty [is out of the race](http://www.timpawlenty.com/articles/from-tim-and-mary), Huntsman is a rounding error in the primaries at the moment, seeking that elusive “rational Republican” vote, Romney is not going to survive the primary process because of his Mormon faith and Gingrich is running solely to ratchet up his speaking fees. Sorry, but the Republican race is among the sorriest bunch of loonballs this Democrat could ever wish for. No Romney if he doesn’t survive is going to be for his flip-flops on issues not for his “Mormonism”, that some people here is convinced is the reason. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::dubious::dubious::dubious::dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/37 "2011-08-29T02:37:19Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > In intelligence I would say he is above-average-you have to be smart to be President and he could be articulate at times. No, you don’t have to be “smart to be President”. You can be an idiot or senile and still be President. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/38 "2011-08-29T03:24:44Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > No Romney if he doesn’t survive is going to be for his flip-flops on issues not for his “Mormonism”, that some people here is convinced is the reason. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::dubious::dubious::dubious::dubious: You seem pretty sure of this assertion, but you are likely wrong. To get the nomination, Romney has to fight his way through the Republican primaries. The Religious Right has spent the last 35 years assiduously inserting themselves into the Republican organization at the precint and state levels. In a general election, the people upset by Romney’s religion might amount to a rounding error, (although it is probably much higher), but in the primaries that he needs to win to build financial support and garner the delegates to make it through the nominating process, the Religious Right is very powerful, and a very large number of them consider the CoJCoLDS to be a “cult” and will not vote for him under any circumstances. The number of people who would “never” vote for a Mormon is “only” about five to seven times the number who would “never” vote for a Catholic or a Jew, but that group of people makes up nearly one third of the Republican base. That is a very high barrier to overcome. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/39 "2011-08-29T03:39:48Z")
George W. Bush is a moderately observant Methodist. Michelle Bachmann is a Lutheran. How they’ve been painted as members of some kind of fringe “Fundie” sects is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349/40 "2011-08-29T04:22:09Z")
I imagine it’s because of some of the views they hold (Bachmann on gays, for example) and things they’ve said (didn’t GWB claim that God told him to invade Iraq?). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bush-really-a-fundie-also-how-smart-dumb-was-he-really/594349.md?page=3)