# Was Bush's bland Xian eulogy for Ford okay with you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534 "2007-01-03T14:19:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/41 "2007-01-03T22:21:18Z")
Psuedotriton, what part of “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” don’t you understand? Just because Bill Clinton was president of the United States doesn’t abridge his right to free exercise of religion, or freedom of speech. Congress can make no law doing so. Bill Clinton was free to go to church every day, to praise Jesus in public, to read from the Bible. The fact that we live in a secular state does not mean we demand our public officials be atheists, since that would violate “No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States” ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/42 "2007-01-03T22:40:09Z")
Exactly. If you passed a law that said, “Elected officials cannot talk about their faith”, THAT would be a violation of the constitution. The state shall not create an ‘official’ religion. It shall not stop people from exercising their rights to engage in whatever faith they choose. Some people are taking the separation clause to mean that Christianity or any other faith should be eradicated from public debate, which is ridiculous. If people interpreted the 2nd amendment as broadly, everyone would own missile launchers and there would be calls to censure politicians who say “guns are bad”. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/43 "2007-01-03T23:41:31Z")
You know, I think I was overreacting a tad. Some excellent points here have helped me to put this in perspective a bit better. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/44 "2007-01-04T01:48:48Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] You know, I think I was overreacting a tad. Some excellent points here have helped me to put this in perspective a bit better. Thanks. [/QUOTE] Congrats. Not many people around here are given to admitting a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/45 "2007-01-04T04:55:56Z")
I put this OP in the same category as fundie Xtians whining over the “War on Christmas” or trying to install monuments to the Ten Commandments on the courthouse steps. They latch onto non-issues that have the flavor of their cause so they can feel they are fighting the good fight. This is much easier than actively working for the cause they profess to believe, and yet passes the time in a suitably cause-focused manor. Meh. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/46 "2007-01-04T04:57:05Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] You know, I think I was overreacting a tad. Some excellent points here have helped me to put this in perspective a bit better. Thanks. [/QUOTE] Good on ya. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/47 "2007-01-04T04:59:54Z")
[QUOTE=newcrasher] I put this OP in the same category as fundie Xtians whining over the “War on Christmas” or trying to install monuments to the Ten Commandments on the courthouse steps. They latch onto non-issues that have the flavor of their cause so they can feel they are fighting the good fight. This is much easier than actively working for the cause they profess to believe, and yet passes the time in a suitably cause-focused manor. Meh. [/QUOTE] Okay but make sure to read post number forty three. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/48 "2007-01-04T05:31:12Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Okay but make sure to read post number forty three. -FrL- [/QUOTE] And you make sure you read the post right above yours. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/49 "2007-01-04T06:06:37Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] You’ll have to forgive me for taking every “who cares” response as a confirmation of my essential here. That’s my point–POTUS, in his official capacity, is mentioning God and no one cares, even most atheists. Hell, I don’t even care that much, except when I think “Is this right?” Then I care. [/QUOTE] Oh. You’re _that_ guy. This thread is not helping sell your book. That wasn’t a Christian eulogy. It was barely a non-sectarian American Deist eulogy. I have boldfaced the entirety of any supernaturalist content below. > [@](#): > > THE PRESIDENT: Mrs. Ford, the Ford family; distinguished guests, including our Presidents and First Ladies; and our fellow citizens: > > We are here today to say goodbye to a great man. Gerald Ford was born and reared in the American heartland. He belonged to a generation that measured men by their honesty and their courage. He grew to manhood under the roof of a loving mother and father – and when times were tough, he took part-time jobs to help them out. In President Ford, the world saw the best of America – and America found a man whose character and leadership would bring calm and healing to one of the most divisive moments in our nation’s history. > > Long before he was known in Washington, Gerald Ford showed his character and his leadership. As a star football player for the University of Michigan, he came face to face with racial prejudice when Georgia Tech came to Ann Arbor for a football game. One of Michigan’s best players was an African American student named Willis Ward. Georgia Tech said they would not take the field if a black man were allowed to play. Gerald Ford was furious at Georgia Tech for making the demand, and for the University of Michigan for caving in. He agreed to play only after Willis Ward personally asked him to. The stand Gerald Ford took that day was never forgotten by his friend. And Gerald Ford never forgot that day either – and three decades later, he proudly supported the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act in the United States Congress. > > Gerald Ford showed his character in the devotion to his family. On the day he became President, he told the nation, “I am indebted to no man, and only to one woman – to my dear wife.” By then Betty Ford had a pretty good idea of what marriage to Gerald Ford involved. After all, their wedding had taken place less than three weeks before his first election to the United States Congress, and his idea of a “honeymoon” was driving to Ann Arbor with his bride so they could attend a brunch before the Michigan-Northwestern game the next day. (Laughter.) And that was the beginning of a great marriage. The Fords would have four fine children. And Steve, Jack, Mike, and Susan know that, as proud as their Dad was of being President, Gerald Ford was even prouder of the other titles he held: father, and grandfather, and great-grandfather. > > Gerald Ford showed his character in the uniform of our country. When Pearl Harbor was attacked in December 1941, Gerald Ford was an attorney fresh out of Yale Law School, but when his nation called he did not hesitate. In early 1942 he volunteered for the Navy and, after receiving his commission, worked hard to get assigned to a ship headed into combat. Eventually his wish was granted, and Lieutenant Ford was assigned to the aircraft carrier, USS Monterey, which saw action in some of the biggest battles of the Pacific. > > Gerald Ford showed his character in public office. As a young congressman, he earned a reputation for an ability to get along with others without compromising his principles. He was greatly admired by his colleagues and they trusted him a lot. And so when President Nixon needed to replace a vice president who had resigned in scandal, he naturally turned to a man whose name was a synonym for integrity: Gerald R. Ford. And eight months later, when he was elevated to the presidency, it was because America needed him, not because he needed the office. > > President Ford assumed office at a terrible time in our nation’s history. At home, America was divided by political turmoil and wracked by inflation. In Southeast Asia, Saigon fell just nine months into his presidency. Amid all the turmoil, Gerald Ford was a rock of stability. And when he put his hand on his family Bible to take the presidential oath of office, he brought grace to a moment of great doubt. > > In a short time, the gentleman from Grand Rapids proved that behind the affability was firm resolve. When a U.S. ship called the Mayaguez was seized by Cambodia, President Ford made the tough decision to send in the Marines – and all the crew members were rescued. **He was criticized for signing the Helsinki Accords, yet history has shown that document helped bring down the Soviet Union, as courageous men and women behind the Iron Curtain used it to demand their God-given liberties.** Twice assassins attempted to take the life of this good and decent man, yet he refused to curtail his public appearances. And when he thought that the nation needed to put Watergate behind us, he made the tough and decent decision to pardon President Nixon, even though that decision probably cost him the presidential election. > > Gerald Ford assumed the presidency when the nation needed a leader of character and humility – and we found it in the man from Grand Rapids. President Ford’s time in office was brief, but history will long remember the courage and common sense that helped restore trust in the workings of our democracy. > > Laura and I had the honor of hosting the Ford family for Gerald Ford’s 90th birthday. It’s one of the highlights of our time in the White House. I will always cherish the memory of the last time I saw him, this past year in California. He was still smiling, still counting himself lucky to have Betty at his side, and still displaying the optimism and generosity that made him one of America’s most beloved leaders. > > And so, on behalf of a grateful nation, we bid farewell to our 38th President. **We thank the Almighty for Gerald Ford’s life, and we ask for God’s blessings on Gerald Ford and his family.** > > END 11:27 A.M. EST You’re unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/50 "2007-01-04T06:12:57Z")
But points for getting off your high horse. Gracious thanks to Apollo, the Incarnate of True Perception, for the Arrows of Light that have opened thine eyes. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/51 "2007-01-04T13:21:36Z")
As I see it Gerald ford was a Christian who had a Christian burial,nothing that connects church and state. I am always in wonder at Funerals etc. where Some person or Clergy is telling God what to do. Like giving peace to the decendents. I think God knows what to do with out being told. I have been at graduations where the minister was saying,"Father this is a nice day and we are celebrating the step these young people are now taking,help them along the way. or bless this group etc. I do not thing a supreme being needs to be told what to do, just as a good father feeds his children without some one telling him what to do. onavis ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/52 "2007-01-04T13:34:28Z")
I guess my objection boils down to free advertising for a product I don’t use. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/53 "2007-01-04T13:57:53Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] I guess my objection boils down to free advertising for a product I don’t use. [/QUOTE] I see you’ve admitted that perhaps you’ve overreacted about this particular incident. What I think is an interesting related issue is how much elected officials can or should speak of their personal faith and the faith of their consituents in their public speeches. It isn’t always clear where the balancing act between the establishment clause, free sppech, and freedom of worship come in. Personnally I think they can say whatever they want and let the ballots reflect how the voters feel about it. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/54 "2007-01-04T14:42:03Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] I guess my objection boils down to free advertising for a product I don’t use. [/QUOTE] What was advertised? And specifically how? Are there any other issues you would like elected officials nto to speak on? Personally I would rather elected officials be as open and honest about who they are and what traditions or beliefs are advising theis decision making. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/55 "2007-01-04T14:51:38Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] I guess my objection boils down to free advertising for a product I don’t use. [/QUOTE] Hmmm. Who made the suit that W wore, I wonder? I sure would like to buy one!!! 😛 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/56 "2007-01-04T14:53:29Z")
Btw, **Foolsguinea** , you forgot this one: **And when he put his hand on his family Bible to take the presidential oath of office, he brought grace to a moment of great doubt.** ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/57 "2007-01-04T15:42:27Z")
[QUOTE=cosmosdan] Personnally I think they can say whatever they want and let the ballots reflect how the voters feel about it. [/QUOTE] I think that’s really the bottom line. What PRR was saying before about whether or not a “fire & brimstone”-type talk would have been acceptable, I think that within the bounds of law it certainly would be. Within the bounds of what is smart politically is another matter. Although I don’t think the “bland” tenor of this particular funeral was a put-on by any means. Episcopalians are not exactly known for being holy-rollers, you know? From what I saw, the funeral was pretty much what I would have expected from everyone involved, whether it was televised or completely private. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/58 "2007-01-04T17:28:34Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] I guess my objection boils down to free advertising for a product I don’t use. [/QUOTE] It’s revealing that you should think of a public mention of God as “advertising.” In this particular instance, it’s not, but all too often it is. The public evangelists, the speakers who try to sneak a plug for their religion into their speeches, the guys who hold up Bible verse signs at televised sporting events, the people who want to publicly display the Ten Commandments or manger scenes in confrontational places: it often seems like they’re selling God, using the same techniques as someone trying to get you to drink Pepsi or try Viagra or vote for a particular political candidate. This kind of thing is often tacky, sometimes a misuse of public position, and, I suspect, hardly ever does more good than harm. And one of the harmful things it does is to make people like **p r r** think of _every_ personal expression of piety or reference to God or religious matters this way, including the ones that (like the subject of this thread) clearly are not. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/59 "2007-01-04T17:42:18Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] it often seems like they’re selling God, using the same techniques as someone trying to get [/QUOTE] Hell yeah!.. er, I mean…AMEN! ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534/60 "2007-01-04T17:54:41Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] Well, it IS an inherently religious event, for a religious person (which is what’s relevant here). [/QUOTE] That’s true, but it isn’t an inherently religious event for a nonreligious person, which is what someone seemed to be implying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-bushs-bland-xian-eulogy-for-ford-okay-with-you/386534.md?page=4)