# Was Casablanca one of the the first films with a truly modern sense of humor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 15, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897 "2003-04-15T16:17:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/1 "2003-04-15T16:17:10Z")
Maybe I haven’t seen enough old films but the knowing and somewhat world weary sarcastic attitudes of the supporting characters like the police chief and the market trader played by Claude Rains and Sidney Greenstreet in Casablanca are the among first times I recall seeing this distinctly (to me) modern sense of humor in an older film. Citizen Kane would be the other. Is Casablanca somewhat unique or pioneering in this fashion or am I just lacking knowledge of film history? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/2 "2003-04-15T16:18:51Z")
Sigh…PIMF Would a kindly mod please move this to the Cafe. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/3 "2003-04-15T16:20:14Z")
Good lord—watch some of the bitter, cynical, wise-cracking pre-Code films of 1929–34! Very modern. Hell, some of them are already _post_modern! ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/4 "2003-04-15T16:35:44Z")
I forgot to out my other question in the OP. Some of the reviews I have read say that the Claude Raines as the police chief is playing it somewhat swishy (I didn’t get that vibe), but (and maybe I have the story confused it here) I thought the minor character of the slightly innocent, pretty young thing trying to get approvals for her and her young hubby to leave was (or had) done the deed (or something funky) with the Police Chief to get the papers she needed. Right… or not? [Casablanca Review](http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/greatmovies/casablanca.html) > [@](#): > > The richness of the supporting characters (Greenstreet as the corrupt club owner, Lorre as the sniveling cheat, Rains as the subtly homosexual police chief and minor characters like the young girl who will do anything to help her husband) set the moral stage for the decisions of the major characters. ---
**Author:** ![j.c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/5 "2003-04-15T19:38:28Z")
Not bashing, really, but it’s not clear what you mean by “truly modern sense of humor” and can’t think of anything that you could mean that remotely begs such a question. Excepting some of the fashion and the running time, there is nothing in Casablanca that is more modern than, oh, and half-dozen films from the turn of the century. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/6 "2003-04-15T20:18:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by j.c. \* > \*\*Not bashing, really, but it’s not clear what you mean by “truly modern sense of humor” and can’t think of anything that you could mean that remotely begs such a question. Excepting some of the fashion and the running time, there is nothing in Casablanca that is more modern than, oh, and half-dozen films from the turn of the century. \*\* I agree it was poorly phrased and I suppose I’m grasping to convey the seemingly modern and corruptible sophistication of the “I’m shocked, shocked etc…” wry, knowing sarcasm of the film. Like I said I’m not a film student, but Casablanca seems to be to have a distinctly _different_ tone to it’s overall feel than other films of the period and it’s Claude Raines performance as the police chief that (to me) mainly makes that difference. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/7 "2003-04-15T20:36:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*I agree it was poorly phrased and I suppose I’m grasping to convey the seemingly modern and corruptible sophistication of the “I’m shocked, shocked etc…” wry, knowing sarcasm of the film. \*\* Well, you could call it film noir, and that can be a trait of film noir…but even so, Casablanca was hardly the first film noir out there. ---
**Author:** ![TheMemeWarrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TheMemeWarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMemeWarrior)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/8 "2003-04-15T20:38:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*Good lord—watch some of the bitter, cynical, wise-cracking pre-Code films of 1929–34! Very modern. Hell, some of them are already _post_modern! \*\* wholeheartedly agreed, but dont dismiss the rest of the 30s and 40s. I especially think The Lady Eve was very good a being cynical and funny while staying one step ahead of the code. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/9 "2003-04-15T20:41:43Z")
I was reminded the other day\* of a classic line in a Marx Brothers movie (Horsefeathers, 1932) when Chico said to a woman he was trying to con, “Who are you gonna believe? Me or your own eyes?” Maybe that’s the watershed. \*it was mentioned in a N.Y. Times column on the former Iraqi Information Minister. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/10 "2003-04-15T21:38:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*I forgot to out my other question in the OP. > > Some of the reviews I have read say that the Claude Raines as the police chief is playing it somewhat swishy (I didn’t get that vibe), but (and maybe I have the story confused it here) I thought the minor character of the slightly innocent, pretty young thing trying to get approvals for her and her young hubby to leave was (or had) done the deed (or something funky) with the Police Chief to get the papers she needed. Right… or not?\*\* No, that’s correct. The vibe you’re referring to is his interaction with Rick (“Ricky is the sort of man who if I were a woman, and I were not around, I should be in love with Rick.”) If this were Star Trek, I would call it “slashy.” ---
**Author:** ![Kallisti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@Kallisti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kallisti)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/11 "2003-04-15T23:09:50Z")
“I thought the minor character of the slightly innocent, pretty young thing trying to get approvals for her and her young hubby to leave was (or had) done the deed (or something funky) with the Police Chief to get the papers she needed. Right… or not?” No, she was going to, but Rick ruined Renault’s fun by letting her husband win at the rigged roulette wheel, so she could pay with money instead. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/12 "2003-04-16T00:09:43Z")
\>\> as the subtly homosexual police chief WTF ?? The guy is pretty much raping women and he is a homosexual? Is it because he’s French? I don’t get this. ---
**Author:** ![Julius\_Henry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@Julius\_Henry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Julius_Henry)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/13 "2003-04-16T00:22:06Z")
The “subtly homosexual police chief” idea comes, I believe, from the scene where Louis is describing Rick, and says something along the lines of “if I were a woman, I would be in love with Rick.” A stretch, I think, but movie critics have never been known for their intellectual prowess. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/14 "2003-04-16T01:20:19Z")
Well, that and the honeyed looks at “I’m going to miss you, Ricky,” and “This looks like the beginning of a beautiful friendship,” and various other junctures. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/15 "2003-04-16T01:22:15Z")
And of course you realize liking da boys and liking da girls aren’t mutually exclusive possibilities. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/16 "2003-04-16T01:37:27Z")
\>\> Ricky is the sort of man who if I were a woman, and I were not around, I should be in love with Rick." I cannot see _any_ hint of homosexuality in there. He says “if I were a woman” and “if I were not around”. In other words, if he were still around as a man he would want the woman to go for him. The idea that there is any homosexuality there is ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/17 "2003-04-16T01:44:27Z")
[Moderator Hat ON] To the Cafe. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/18 "2003-04-16T02:30:03Z")
Back to the OP. I’m amazed that **Eve** managed not to blow a gasket over this. Nice restraint on her part. 🙂 As some have already said, you can think that _Casablanca_ is the first with this type of humor only if you’ve never seen a movie made earlier than 1942. For pete’s sake, Bogart made _The Maltese Falcon_ the year before. Doesn’t that have the same attitude as _Casablanca_ except more so? C’mon, **Eve** , pull out the film history books and give the OP both barrels. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/19 "2003-04-16T03:11:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > \*\*Back to the OP. I’m amazed that **Eve** managed not to blow a gasket over this. Nice restraint on her part. 🙂 > > As some have already said, you can think that _Casablanca_ is the first with this type of humor only if you’ve never seen a movie made earlier than 1942. For pete’s sake, Bogart made _The Maltese Falcon_ the year before. Doesn’t that have the same attitude as _Casablanca_ except more so? > > C’mon, **Eve** , pull out the film history books and give the OP both barrels. 😃 \*\* In my recollection of the Maltese Falcon it surely is as edgy and “film noirish” as it gets, but that’s not really what I’m talking about, Casablanca is _playfully_ corrupt and _that’s_ different. In retrospect it appears clear to me I’m doing a poor job articulating a notion that appears to be singular to me with respect to the uniqueness of Casablanca’s overall sensibility, and that tells me I’m probably wrong about it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897/20 "2003-04-16T03:47:22Z")
Hat-check girl, looking at Mae West’s jewelry: Goodness, what beautiful diamonds! West: Goodness had nothing to do with it, dearie. That was Mae West’s first movie line, from _Night After Night_, 1932. The line is over seventy years old and it still cracks me up. Damn you, Hays! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-casablanca-one-of-the-the-first-films-with-a-truly-modern-sense-of-humor/168897.md?page=2)