# Was Christianity a plagiarisation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874 "2010-01-14T02:28:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![copperwindow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/1 "2010-01-14T02:28:01Z")
I was reading a book that claimed that Horus, the Egyptian sun god, was born on December 25th, was born of a virgin, was baptized at the age of 30, had twelve disciples, performed miracles such as healing the sick and walking on water, was known as “the king of kings”, and “the alpha and omega”, was crucified, buried for three days and was resurrected. It also claims that a Greek figure known as Attis was born on December 25th, was born of a virgin, was crucified, buried for three days and was resurrected. It claims that Krishna of India was born of a virgin, performed miracles, and was resurrected. It claims that Dionysus of Greece was born of a virgin on December 25th, walked around with disciples performing miracles such as turning water into wine, was known as “the king of kings”, and “the alpha and omega”, and upon his death was resurrected. It claims that Mithra of Pursia was born of a virgin on December 25th, had twelve disciples, performed miracles, was dead for three days and was resurrected, was known as “the truth” and “the light” and was worshiped on Sundays. It says similar things about Indra of Tibet, Bali of Afghanistan, Jao of Nepal, Wittoba of Bilingonesd, Thammuz of Syria, Alys of Phrygia, Beddru of Japan, Hesus of Eros, and the list goes on and on. Can anyone confirm on deny **any** of this? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/2 "2010-01-14T02:31:38Z")
A Wiki in [Horus.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus) Basically, some aspects of Christianity were indeed borrowed from earlier religions. However, that’s a bit over the top in the list of similarities. > [@](#): > > Horus is one of the oldest and most significant of the deities in the Ancient Egyptian religion who was worshipped from at least the late Predynastic period through to Greco-Roman times. Different forms of Horuses are recorded in history and these are treated as distinct gods by Egyptologists.[1] These various forms may possibly be different perceptions of the same multi-layered deity in which certain attributes or syncretic relationships are emphasised, not necessarily in opposition but complementary to one another, consistent with how the Ancient Egyptians viewed the multiple facets of reality.[2] The earliest recorded form is Horus the Falcon who was the patron deity of Nekhen in Upper Egypt and who is the first known national god, specifically related to the king who in time became to be regarded as a manifestation of Horus in life and Osiris in death.[1] The most commonly encountered family relationship describes Horus as the son of Isis and Osiris but in another tradition Hathor is regarded as his mother and sometimes as his wife.[1] Horus served many functions in the Egyptian pantheon, most notably being the god of the Sky, god of War and god of Protection. -XT ---
**Author:** ![copperwindow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/3 "2010-01-14T02:41:53Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > However, that’s a bit over the top in the list of similarities. > > -XT What part was over the top? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/4 "2010-01-14T02:47:31Z")
Most of it. Baptized? Um, no. 12 disciples? Not as far as I can tell, though I’m sure that taking literary license you could work it that way. Could he walk on water? Well yeah…he was a God. He wasn’t a son of God in human flesh, he was an actual God, so yeah, he could perform miracles and such. No idea about when he was supposedly born, but I doubt it was on the 25th of December. IIRC, that was just one of the celebrations of Horus. He wasn’t crucified either…one of the other Gods (Set IIRC) basically captured him and then dismembered him and threw his parts to various animals and such to eat. One of the other Goddesses (Isis? Don’t recall now, been a while) put him back together (save his man parts) and then had sex with him. Yeah, there are some similarities, but as I said, whatever you are reading, they need to put down the bong and come back down to reality. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/5 "2010-01-14T02:48:57Z")
Most of it. Take a look at _The Golden Bough_ for slain-and-resurrected “corn king” figures – remembering that Frazer had his own agenda. This is not to say that Christianity did not make the most of similarities between its own belief structure and the local mythology – some of the early Christian Norse comment on the similarities between the Balder myth and the Cheist story, which were qite distinct phenomena. I’m fairly sure that the Huro mythology had some interesting similarities that the early Jesuit missionaries made the most of. ---
**Author:** ![ragerdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d07c76/32.png) [@ragerdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ragerdude)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/6 "2010-01-14T03:15:35Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > He wasn’t crucified either…one of the other Gods (Set IIRC) basically captured him and then dismembered him and threw his parts to various animals and such to eat. One of the other Goddesses (Isis? Don’t recall now, been a while) put him back together (save his man parts) and then had sex with him. That didn’t happen to Horus – it was Osiris. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/7 "2010-01-14T03:29:18Z")
Ah well…always get my Egyptian Gods mixed up. :smack: Horus was their son, right? Or am I still misremembering? -XT ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/8 "2010-01-14T03:36:02Z")
I think the theme of descending into Hell after death for a final battle or rescue is a common aspect of ancient tales and religions. Homer’s Odyssey, for one and Thor’s descent in Norse mythology. Possibly this influenced the early biblical writers? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/9 "2010-01-14T03:38:22Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Most of it. Baptized? Um, no. 12 disciples? Not as far as I can tell, though I’m sure that taking literary license you could work it that way. Could he walk on water? Well yeah…he was a God. He wasn’t a son of God in human flesh, he was an actual God, so yeah, he could perform miracles and such. No idea about when he was supposedly born, but I doubt it was on the 25th of December. IIRC, that was just one of the celebrations of Horus. He wasn’t crucified either…one of the other Gods (Set IIRC) basically captured him and then dismembered him and threw his parts to various animals and such to eat. One of the other Goddesses (Isis? Don’t recall now, been a while) put him back together (save his man parts) and then had sex with him. No, I think that was Osiris. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/10 "2010-01-14T03:43:45Z")
It’s obvious that some aspects are similar. The number 12 is connected to lots of stuff in that area, for example (months, tribe, constelations). [This is an interesting article](http://touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=16-10-012-v) form Touchstone Magazine about the date for Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/11 "2010-01-14T04:00:42Z")
You may want to look at [Mithras](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras#Mithraism_and_Christianity) too. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/12 "2010-01-14T04:01:47Z")
Religion? Over the top? My goodness! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/13 "2010-01-14T04:06:17Z")
Probably spell it wrong, but Zorasterians as well had a lot of influence on the early church IIRC. The Gnostics too. And of course as Christianity spread they picked up a lot of local traditions and adapted local holidays into their own fabric. A lot of the stuff associated with Christmas and Easter comes from several pagan European religious traditions and festivals, IIRC. -XT ---
**Author:** ![copperwindow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/14 "2010-01-14T04:10:18Z")
It was also saying that his birth sequence was completely astrological. It said that Sirius, the brightest star in the sky aligns with the three brightest stars in Orien’s belt on December 24th, and that these stars are called today what they were called in ancient times, the three kings. It said that the virgin Mary is the constellation Virgo, noting that in latin Virgo means virgin, and that the ancient glyph for Virgo is the alted M and this is why Mary along with Addoni’s mother Myrra or Budda’s mother Maya begin with an M. Is any of this true? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/15 "2010-01-14T04:16:51Z")
Was this a book or the movie Zeitgeist? ---
**Author:** ![copperwindow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/16 "2010-01-14T04:22:49Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Was this a book or the movie Zeitgeist? It was actually a book called Zeitgeist. How did you know that? ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/17 "2010-01-14T04:28:01Z")
> [@copperwindow](#): > > Budda’s mother Maya begin with an M. Is any of this true? For what it’s worth, Maya is a common name in India, and I believe it means “Illusion” as in the illusion of this world vs. the other world, and ties in nicely with the concept of this world is just temporary, and the illusions of possessions and such. But Maya is used to mean “illusion” in Hinduism, which is where I’m more familiar with the term (as well as it’s a common female name). Also, the Krishna rebirth issue is kinda fuzzy. He didn’t really have a Jesus Rebirth sort of issue- though there are stories of him healing the sick, and he did tend to preach love everyone, the whole dying and coming back thing might be someone just trying to use the broader concept of reincarnation, as Vishnu is born as Krishna, and Krishna is one of the 12 avatars of Vishnu, so technically it could be said that Vishnu is being born again and again as these various forms, but I believe when Krishna died (by being shot through the foot), he pretty much stayed dead. At least in the broad aspects of Hinduism that I know, there are plenty of sects and groups that worship Krishna alone and may have variations on the mythology and stories though. But that’s the general one up there. Also, I don’t believe he was a Virgin birth. He was the 8th child born to Devaki while she was imprisoned, but the only one that survived as the Father was able to escape with the baby in the dead of night (due to God unlocking all the doors and creating a storm to cover the noise) and he switched the baby with another by his friend in the nearby village. So again, not really making the connections to Jesus’ birth there. Though both were I guess hunted and persecuted, but not quite in the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/18 "2010-01-14T04:45:26Z")
> [@copperwindow](#): > > It was actually a book called Zeitgeist. How did you know that? I saw the movie version a few years back. It has a section on Jesus, another on the Federal Reserve in the United States, and the Sept. 11th attacks. ---
**Author:** ![copperwindow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/19 "2010-01-14T04:46:42Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > For what it’s worth, Maya is a common name in India, and I believe it means “Illusion” as in the illusion of this world vs. the other world, and ties in nicely with the concept of this world is just temporary, and the illusions of possessions and such. But Maya is used to mean “illusion” in Hinduism, which is where I’m more familiar with the term (as well as it’s a common female name). > > Also, the Krishna rebirth issue is kinda fuzzy. He didn’t really have a Jesus Rebirth sort of issue- though there are stories of him healing the sick, and he did tend to preach love everyone, the whole dying and coming back thing might be someone just trying to use the broader concept of reincarnation, as Vishnu is born as Krishna, and Krishna is one of the 12 avatars of Vishnu, so technically it could be said that Vishnu is being born again and again as these various forms, but I believe when Krishna died (by being shot through the foot), he pretty much stayed dead. At least in the broad aspects of Hinduism that I know, there are plenty of sects and groups that worship Krishna alone and may have variations on the mythology and stories though. But that’s the general one up there. > Also, I don’t believe he was a Virgin birth. He was the 8th child born to Devaki while she was imprisoned, but the only one that survived as the Father was able to escape with the baby in the dead of night (due to God unlocking all the doors and creating a storm to cover the noise) and he switched the baby with another by his friend in the nearby village. > > So again, not really making the connections to Jesus’ birth there. Though both were I guess hunted and persecuted, but not quite in the same way. I was never taught any of this in Sunday school! ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/20 "2010-01-14T08:43:41Z")
> [@copperwindow](#): > > I was never taught any of this in Sunday school! What? He was showing differences between the Krishna story & the Jesus story. So why should that even be a concern in Sunday School? Long-story short- there are some superficial resemblances between the Christ story & Pagan myth, but not nearly as many as the “Pagan Christ” folk would have you believe (none of this is new, btw- it goes back to 19th century freethinkers’ books like “The World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors” and “Pagan Christs” and ironically the hyper-Protestant Alexander Hislop’s book “The Two Babylons: The Papal Religion Proved to be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife”). I’m actually kinda disappointed by this. I liked the idea of Pagan Lore prophesying the coming of our Lord and Savior even as I believe the Hebrew Scriptures did. And THAT’S another argument! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874.md?page=2)