# Was Christianity a plagiarisation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874 "2010-01-14T02:28:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/21 "2010-01-14T09:00:48Z")
Several researchers have also posited that Christianity contains certain Jewish elements. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/22 "2010-01-14T09:03:27Z")
My Sunday School class is open to discussing other religious faiths or even attending other services. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/23 "2010-01-14T09:06:20Z")
I wouldn’t say that Christianity plagiarised other myths and religions, so much as had the same root as them. For a few other facets of modern-day Christianity, like the date of the 25th, that’s about helping local heathens become Christians by letting lots of local traditions in to make Christianity seem familiar and easy to adapt to. Christmas, for example - the date’s not in the Bible and certain events (like the probable date of the census Mary and Joseph were travelling to) make it unlikely that the birth related in the Bible was in December. The date of the 25th of December wasn’t used until a while after the Christians had spread across Europe. I’d say it has a lot more to do with the solstice (which was also the pagan new year in Europe and one of the biggest festivals in local societies) than any date from the myth of Mithras. ---
**Author:** ![bettyporkta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@bettyporkta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bettyporkta)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/24 "2010-01-14T09:53:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Several researchers have also posited that Christianity contains certain Jewish elements. probably because “jesus” was a jew? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/25 "2010-01-14T10:01:34Z")
[http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr\_jcpa5.htm](http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm) [http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr\_jcpa5b.htm](http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5b.htm) It is a valid comparison. Supposedly it all relates to metaphors for the winter solstice. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/26 "2010-01-14T10:03:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Several researchers have also posited that Christianity contains certain Jewish elements. 😃 One of my favorite Christopher Hitchens quotations: "“Monotheistic religion is a plagiarism of a plagiarism of a hearsay of a hearsay, of an illusion of an illusion, extending all the way back to a fabrication of a few nonevents.” ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/27 "2010-01-14T10:24:19Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > I’d say it has a lot more to do with the solstice (which was also the pagan new year in Europe and one of the biggest festivals in local societies) than any date from the myth of Mithras. Yes, the annual rebirth of the Sun-God Mithras would have nothing to do with the rebirth of the sun in winter… ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/28 "2010-01-14T10:59:36Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Yes, the annual rebirth of the Sun-God Mithras would have nothing to do with the > rebirth of the sun in winter… I never said that. I said that the choice of the 25th of December was less likely to be to do with the myth of Mithras because it was settled upon later by European Christians. When it comes to facets of Christianity that were settled upon by European Christians, European paganism is bound to be a bigger influence than ancient Egypt. Of course, the date is probably partly down to the solstice without any reference to other myths - they all have similar dates not just because they’re copying each other but because they all, astronomically, have the solstice. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/29 "2010-01-14T11:08:08Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > I never said that. I said that the choice of the 25th of December was less likely to be to do with the myth of Mithras because it was settled upon later by European Christians. When it comes to facets of Christianity that were settled upon by European Christians, European paganism is bound to be a bigger influence than ancient Egypt. > > Of course, the date is probably partly down to the solstice without any reference to other myths - they all have similar dates not just because they’re copying each other but because they all, astronomically, have the solstice. So you agree then? That the feast on december 25th is of “heathen” origin, because several native religions plus a big one from the east (Mithraism) that was widespread over the roman Emire celebrated the solstice in their mythologies. Christianity plagiarised the 25th to piggyback on the popular feast. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/30 "2010-01-14T11:37:08Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > So you agree then? > That the feast on december 25th is of “heathen” origin, because several native religions plus a big one from the east (Mithraism) that was widespread over the roman Emire celebrated the solstice in their mythologies. > Christianity plagiarised the 25th to piggyback on the popular feast. Why are you arguing with me? 😕 I said from the start that early European Christians chose that date partly because of local pagan customs. It’s not like you’ve persuaded me to that POV. I just don’t call that ‘plagiarism,’ and I think local pagans who were still very active were vastly more influential in the choice of date than distant Gods from dead religions; I also don’t think the pagan dates were the entire reason for the date. Early Christians would appreciate the astonomical solstice too. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/31 "2010-01-14T11:57:21Z")
> [@bettyporkta](#): > > probably because “jesus” was a jew? :eek: Whoosh! ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/32 "2010-01-14T11:57:29Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Why are you arguing with me? 😕 I said from the start that early European Christians chose that date partly because of local pagan customs. It’s not like you’ve persuaded me to that POV. > > I just don’t call that ‘plagiarism,’ and I think local pagans who were still very active were vastly more influential in the choice of date than distant Gods from dead religions; I also don’t think the pagan dates were the entire reason for the date. Early Christians would appreciate the astonomical solstice too. It wasn’t very clear to me what you \*were[i/] saying. I now see that the confusion stems from that you think those eastern religions were long dead when Christianity adopted the feast. When did Christianity start celebrating the 25th and when was the nativity story created? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/33 "2010-01-14T12:24:32Z")
> [@copperwindow](#): > > I was reading a book that claimed that Horus, the Egyptian sun god, was born on December 25th, was born of a virgin, was baptized at the age of 30, had twelve disciples, performed miracles such as healing the sick and walking on water, was known as “the king of kings”, and “the alpha and omega”, was crucified, buried for three days and was resurrected. It also claims that a Greek figure known as Attis was born on December 25th, was born of a virgin, was crucified, buried for three days and was resurrected. It claims that Krishna of India was born of a virgin, performed miracles, and was resurrected. It claims that Dionysus of Greece was born of a virgin on December 25th, walked around with disciples performing miracles such as turning water into wine, was known as “the king of kings”, and “the alpha and omega”, and upon his death was resurrected. It claims that Mithra of Pursia was born of a virgin on December 25th, had twelve disciples, performed miracles, was dead for three days and was resurrected, was known as “the truth” and “the light” and was worshiped on Sundays. It says similar things about Indra of Tibet, Bali of Afghanistan, Jao of Nepal, Wittoba of Bilingonesd, Thammuz of Syria, Alys of Phrygia, Beddru of Japan, Hesus of Eros, and the list goes on and on. Can anyone confirm on deny **any** of this? I have 2 volumes of the book"Osiris and the Egyptian Ressurection", There are many things that were claimed of Jesus that are the same, But Osiris(not Horus) wasn’t buried, he was cut to pieces and Isis his (sister) wife, gathered all the pieces and took the shape of a dove and hovered over the parts and resurrected him, (she found all the parts but his penis)! He was called the Good Shepard, King of Kings, God,and son of God,supposed to walk on water, but nothing in my books about apostles,nor performing miracles. Isis is supposed to have taken the form of a dove, hovered over Osiris and concieved Horus their son. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/34 "2010-01-14T12:32:42Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I have 2 volumes of the book"Osiris and the Egyptian Ressurection", There are many things that were claimed of Jesus that are the same, But Osiris(not Horus) wasn’t buried, he was cut to pieces and Isis his (sister) wife, gathered all the pieces and took the shape of a dove and hovered over the parts and resurrected him, (she found all the parts but his penis)! He was called the Good Shepard, King of Kings, God,and son of God,supposed to walk on water, but nothing in my books about apostles,nor performing miracles. Isis is supposed to have taken the form of a dove, hovered over Osiris and concieved Horus their son. As a post script: They also have a bread and wine ceremony of which I heard a cult of Osiris (Egyptians) still use to this day to honor Osiris. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/35 "2010-01-14T13:48:41Z")
I wouldn’t say that it was outright plagerism. I would say that Christianity was influenced on the helenism of the day, but it was still heavily based on Judaism. Here’s some [good info](http://bulfinch.englishatheist.org/da/index.htm), IMO. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/36 "2010-01-14T13:55:12Z")
What came first, the priest, or the religion? ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/37 "2010-01-14T14:21:38Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > What came first, the priest, or the religion? Even Better…What came first, the religion or the god? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/38 "2010-01-14T14:34:44Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Christianity plagiarised the 25th to piggyback on the popular feast. That’s not what plagiarism means. And yes, I’m resisting the urge to start quoting _The Princess Bride_. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/39 "2010-01-14T14:36:07Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Yes, the annual rebirth of the Sun-God Mithras would have nothing to do with the > rebirth of the sun in winter… If **Gaudere** is lurking, perhaps she will repost her Mithrasmas Carol, which I found hilarious. The point is, “Celebrating Chirstmas on December 25” is peripheral to the belief ysstem of Christianity – it’s a date chosen for a bizarre reason, that enabled pickingup on Midwinter Feast rituals from a variety of cultures. And the focus of Christianity is on either or both of (a) Jesus’s teachings on how to live a life in accord with Him, and/or (b) the metaphysical implications of His Crucifixion and Resurrection. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874/40 "2010-01-14T14:37:09Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > That’s not what plagiarism means. And yes, I’m resisting the urge to start quoting _The Princess Bride_. “That’s inconceivable!” – Zecharias the priest, father of John the Baptist 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christianity-a-plagiarisation/524874.md?page=3)