# Was Christopher Columbus acting on any tips from prior travellers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 1, 2021, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123 "2021-04-01T01:00:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/42 "2021-04-04T17:09:46Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > Also keep in mind that without the internet to guide them, information propagation and lookup for the 15th century intelligentsia was slow, erratic, incomplete, and unreliable. As an example of this, note that 14th and 15th century maps of Europe that included the Atlantic had all manner of bogus islands on them with the few real islands mixed in. For example [Hy-Brasil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brasil_(mythical_island)) (mentioned above by @DrDeth; it was no relation at all to Brazil and was supposedly somewhere near Ireland) and [Antillia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antillia) (the Antilles get their name from this one). ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/43 "2021-04-04T17:21:09Z")
Does it count as a tip if it was bogus? I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of mariners who strayed upon deserted stretches of coast in the Atlantic (Iceland, Greenland, Ascension, St. Helena, etc.) came back with claims of visiting Asia. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/44 "2021-04-04T19:43:48Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > That’s not a strong argument. When the Pilgrim Fathers landed, they were lucky enough to be helped out by a local _who spoke English_ through contact with whalers/sealers, and the population was already decimated from contact. Well true, but the Pilgrims showed up 120 years after Columbus. There were plenty of European trips to the New World prior to then. The local native who spoke English learned it in Europe-he had been kidnapped and sold into slavery in Portugal, escaped to England and hitched a ride back to the New World. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/45 "2021-04-04T19:44:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > “contact” is a very neutral term for being kidnapped, sold into slavery, escaping to live in England for years, then being brought back. By _colonists_ at one of the other existing colonies. There was little luck in it, Tisquantum was very familiar with the English already, and not through casual contact with whalers. It was he who encouraged Samoset, who _had_ leaned his English from fishermen, to make first contact. But Tisquantum was the one who “helped out” the colonists. Oops. Sorry about posting the same info later. Mr. Dibble did a much better job. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/46 "2021-04-04T19:49:09Z")
Bristol and the hunt for Hy-brasil, sure. The Cod banks? Sure. Vinland? Unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/47 "2021-04-04T19:51:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > In other words, whalers found it profitable to make sufficient contact with the natives that they could have passed on disease. During most of the 1500s the Natives had no desire-in fact a strong disincentive-to allow sailors to land. Europeans were considered hairy smelly savages that could not be trusted. And until European military technology advanced to the 1600’s the natives were quite capable of enforcing their ban. When a European ship showed up, natives made it quite clear that they weren’t welcome to land. Trade was conducted via ropes and canoes. Since the Europeans visiting N. America weren’t interested nor equipped to force an entry, disease transmission was minimized. Of course down in the Carribbean and central and S. America things were different. The reason of course was gold. Already mined gold. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/48 "2021-04-05T05:11:23Z")
As Wikipdia says: > The last reported ship to reach Greenland was a private ship that was “blown off course”, reaching Greenland in 1406, and departing in 1410 with the last news of Greenland: the burning at the stake of [a condemned male witch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolgrim), the insanity and death of the woman this witch was accused of attempting to seduce through witchcraft, and the marriage of the ship’s captain, Thorsteinn Ólafsson, to another Icelander, Sigríður Björnsdóttir.[[34]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greenland#cite_note-34) However, there are some suggestions of much later unreported voyages from Europe to Greenland, possibly as late as the 1480s. So Greenland was a fading memory but still within memory of those Columbus would have met, or at least their parents, perhaps. Climate at the time was the alleged cause of the demise of the Greenland colony, so probably something that discouraged frivolous voyages in northern latitudes. North Atlantic storms were I assume familiar to sailors going near Iceland; Whereas hurricanes were probably a very different novelty once Columbus was going west in the tropics. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/49 "2021-04-05T06:16:52Z")
What I don’t get is why some people are so invested in Columbus having other information we are not aware of. The plain common sense understanding is that he didn’t. He was trying for years to get somebody, anybody, to finance his expedition, and if he had had information from other travellers, that would have been his best possible selling point. The fact that he didn’t use that selling point is a good indication that he had no other information. - Both his son, Fernando Columbus, and Bartolomé de las Casas attribute Columbus’ idea of sailing west only to Toscanelli. - He never used information from other travellers as a selling point. - If he knew about land to the north-west, he would have started in northern Europe and sailed north-west, but instead he started from Spain and sailed slightly south of west. Occam’s Razor seems to apply. I don’t understand _why_ people think it’s important to make up stories and theories and about what Columbus _might_ possibly, conceivably have known that we don’t have evidence for, when the existing evidence is sufficient. Also, what difference would it even make if Columbus had heard some rumours? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/50 "2021-04-05T12:37:26Z")
Do we actually know what selling points he used? And the reason why some people are “so invested in the idea” that he had other information is that it is, like you claim for the opposite, just common sense. Making the voyage based only on the information we know he had would be just crazy. Making it based on other information would be sane. Sane people are more common than crazy people, so it’s more likely that he had other information. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/51 "2021-04-05T13:03:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Do we actually know what selling points he used? Yes, only his distance calculations. > [@Chronos](#): > > Making the voyage based only on the information we know he had would be just crazy. He thought his calculations were right. (But sure, nobody in history has ever done anything because they were crazy and obsessive. 😁) So let me ask again, if he had information about land to the north-west, why did he sail south-west? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/52 "2021-04-05T15:23:13Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Yes, only his distance calculations. Do we have solid sources for that or only 200 years after 3rd party? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/53 "2021-04-05T15:29:10Z")
> [@Civil\_Guy](#): > > [https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/2021/02/18/episode-145-a-sea-change-for-europe/](https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/2021/02/18/episode-145-a-sea-change-for-europe/) I recently listened to this podcast, and the subsequent #146 for a very thorough review of Columbus’ reasoning and experiences. I recommend it highly, and thanks to Civil Guy to bringing it into this thread. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/54 "2021-04-05T17:17:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Do we have solid sources for that or only 200 years after 3rd party? Bartolome de las Casas goes through Columbus’ presentations to the panels of experts in Portugal and Spain, and their arguments against him. Nothing is said about any stories of land to the west, only arguments about the distance, feasibility of travelling and getting back, questions abut why nobody from East Asia has ever come to Europe by that route, etc. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/55 "2021-04-05T17:22:05Z")
Bartolome de las Casas was 8 years old in 1492. And hated Columbus. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/56 "2021-04-05T17:41:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And hated Columbus. Did he really? I guess that’s why he praises Columbus at length so effusively. Where exactly did you get the idea that he hated him? Cite? Anyway, he was in a position to know, since his father travelled with Columbus. Proving a negative is always difficult. If you think that Columbus had heard stories about land to the west, it’s up to you to prove it. Primary sources only! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/57 "2021-04-05T18:21:12Z")
What I sometimes wonder is if Columbus really believed in the shorter estimates or if he was just using those estimates to sell his idea to backers and his crews. Maybe he was gambling on favorable winds or intervening land masses rather than on those sketchy estimates about the distance to Asia. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/58 "2021-04-05T18:25:44Z")
All I know is that Columbus did visit Bristol. What he heard there about the New World is 100% speculation. I cheerfully admit that. Well, to be fair, what he hated was Columbus’s slavery, and slavery in the Americas :[Las Casas' Discovery: What the 'Protector of the Indians' found in America](https://www.americamagazine.org/issue/las-casas-discovery) He did start out as a supporter but he changed his mind after seeing the cruelty to the native populations. Indeed his father did travel with Columbus, but I dont see that his father was around when Columbus pitched his ideas. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/59 "2021-04-05T18:50:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > He did start out as a supporter but he changed his mind Did he? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/60 "2021-04-05T18:55:29Z")
Did you read my cite? Here is wiki: > **[Bartolomé de las Casas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartolom%C3%A9_de_las_Casas)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Bartolomé de las Casas, OP (US: /lɑːs ˈkɑːsəs/ lahs KAH-səs; Spanish: \[baɾtoloˈme ðe las ˈkasas\] (listen); 11 November 1484 – 18 July 1566) was a 16th-century Spanish landowner, friar, priest, and bishop, famed as a historian and social reformer. He arrived in Hispaniola as a layman then became a Dominican friar and priest. He was appointed as the first resident Bishop of Chiapas, and the first officially appointed "Protector of the Indians". His ... _Arriving as one of the first Spanish (and European) settlers in the Americas, Las Casas initially participated in, but eventually felt compelled to oppose, the abuses committed by colonists against the [Native Americans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas)._ He was a slaveholder to start, but then condemned the abuse of the natives. The slavery and abuse was , as we all know , started by Columbus himself. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2021, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123/61 "2021-04-05T19:01:51Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > What I sometimes wonder is if Columbus really believed in the shorter estimates or if he was just using those estimates to sell his idea to backers and his crews. Maybe he was gambling on favorable winds or intervening land masses rather than on those sketchy estimates about the distance to Asia. He was the one who called the natives ‘Indios’ (Indians) which at the time only meant people from Asia. That was what he called them from the beginning. When it turned out the lands he found were not the location of rich Asian cities, he maintained they were just outlying islands and the mainland was around somewhere; he just needed to keep looking. Apparently, he went to his grave thinking he’d found the short cut to Asia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-christopher-columbus-acting-on-any-tips-from-prior-travellers/939123.md?page=4)