# Was Cream overrated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 9, 2019, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-cream-overrated/836757 "2019-07-09T05:46:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-cream-overrated/836757/41 "2019-07-12T20:02:05Z")
To appreciate Cream in their zenith you have to understand the overall environment they were in. They were innovative and exciting. But like all other innovations, their work became dated. > [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > Why would you judge the quality of a band based on a concert recorded _35_ years after their prime? No one going to Stones concert now would say they were a great band either. I dont know any musician who plays as well at age 60 as they did at 30. It’s not that the Cream members don’t still play well. It’s that they still play the same old shit. Cream was great because they were inventive. By 2005 they were just another nostalgia act phoning it in. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-cream-overrated/836757/42 "2019-07-13T02:27:36Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > Umm…'68 was late Cream. 😃 2 1/2 years, dude. Early Cream _was_ late Cream.😃 Cream didn’t even last long enough to curdle. BTW, “two handfuls” of hits for a band that only recorded four studio albums ain’t bad. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-cream-overrated/836757/43 "2019-07-13T06:28:01Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Clapton may have enjoyed “Reunion Cream” more than “Original Cream” because he was not the referee. The group’s dynamics were different in the 60s. Bruce and Baker had been in the Graham Bond Organization together and agreed on only 2 things. They each HATED each others guts and they each wanted to play with Clapton. So Clapton was in the middle of that. During the Reunion, it was just a reunion for one gig. They didn’t have to pal around, just make music. And sound reinforcement technology was a LOT different in 05 than it was in 68. Anyone wanting more of this should watch _Beware of Mr. Baker_ which is amazing - and a bit scary. Including how Baker more or less pushed his way into Blind Faith. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-cream-overrated/836757/44 "2019-07-13T06:33:52Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > 2 1/2 years, dude. Early Cream _was_ late Cream.😃 > > Cream didn’t even last long enough to curdle. > > BTW, “two handfuls” of hits for a band that only recorded four studio albums ain’t bad. The production on the first album was pretty poor. And they didn’t enhance the blues standards that they did as much as they did later. _From Four Until Late_ was a lot more like what you heard on Bluesbreakers than on Wheels of Fire. BTW, check out Bruce’s _Songs for a Tailor._ Great album. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-cream-overrated/836757/45 "2019-07-13T17:56:08Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > 2 1/2 years, dude. Early Cream _was_ late Cream.😃 > > Cream didn’t even last long enough to curdle. > > BTW, “two handfuls” of hits for a band that only recorded four studio albums ain’t bad. I know you’re joking (at least I think you’re joking), but as described on the Cream bootlegs page, Cream had three stages: "Cream’s career basically can be broken into 3 eras – June 66- July 67 “Renovating the Blues” of the shorter blues based song form Aug ’67 – June 68 “Jamming” of the extended instrumental jams and psychedelia. Sept 68 – Nov ’68 “Farewell Tour” " “Renovating the Blues” was Cream trying to find their audience and style. They were trying to stay close the studio recordings on “Fresh Cream” and songs that would appear on “Disraeli Gears”. Their jams were shorter and less experimental. Despite what most people think, until they started touring the U.S., they were still struggling. “Jamming” was Cream in their prime and where they proved they weren’t “overrated”. They often were “…playing for themselves” with the audiences just being lucky witnesses to what they were doing. This the period where most of the the live tracks on “Wheels of Fire” and Live Cream Vol. I and Live Cream Vol. II were recorded. “Farewell Tour” Eric has stated that he didn’t want to do it, but Jack, Ginger, Robert Stigwood and money forced him into it. As Ginger said about “Farewell Concert of Cream”, “We were so much better than that.”. Still they were head and shoulders above most groups then and now. The live tracks on “Goodbye” are from this period. As I’ve stated above, there were two Creams. Jekyl was their studio work. Each album had it’s place in Cream’s history, but not made them great. If you’re a fan of their studio work and their hits, that’s fine and respected, but it’s not what made Cream legendary. Live Cream was when they turned into Hyde, especially during the “Jamming” period. They were pushing each other to heights they never hit before or since. Jack and Ginger are rightfully respected for their work after Cream, but without Eric to join/push them, I find it incomplete. I’m envious of Crotalus for having seen Cream live, but as evidenced by the bootlegs, Cream was constantly evolving, especially during their “Jamming” period. To judge their live work by one concert is unfair to their legacy. Which brings me to the end of my decades long search for something I couldn’t place my finger on. Despite the numerous repackaged “official” Cream releases, with the exception of “Those Were the Days”, almost all of them were repackaging of the original six albums, “Fresh Cream”, “Disraeli Gears”, “Wheels of Fire”, “Goodbye”, “Live Cream Vol I” and “Live Cream Vol II”. By the early '80’s I had all of them and wanted more of what made their live work so compelling. I listened to blues, jazz and their contemporaries trying to find that mix that Cream had. And while it lead me to some great groups and albums, I still wasn’t satisfied. It was only when I finally found the bootlegs in the early 2000’s, that my search ended. After listening to them, then and now, I realized that the way the three of them played during their time with Cream was what I was searching for! A few years ago, a co-worker was trying to convince me to listen to some groups whose concerts were available through live streaming, talking about how great the guitarists were. I may well be missing out on some great musicians and groups, but I kindly declined, explaining that Cream was all I needed. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-cream-overrated/836757/46 "2019-07-13T18:04:32Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Clapton may have enjoyed “Reunion Cream” more than “Original Cream” because he was not the referee. The group’s dynamics were different in the 60s. Bruce and Baker had been in the Graham Bond Organization together and agreed on only 2 things. They each HATED each others guts and they each wanted to play with Clapton. So Clapton was in the middle of that. During the Reunion, it was just a reunion for one gig. They didn’t have to pal around, just make music. And sound reinforcement technology was a LOT different in 05 than it was in 68. > > Clapton played a '64 Gibson SG Standard with a stop tailpiece with Cream. In '68 he switched to a Gibson Firebird and he had that Cherry red Gibson ES-335. He liked guitars with 2 humbuckers, volume controls, and tone controls then. They’re a third thing Jack and Ginger agreed upon, they respected each other as musicians and have often said each was one of the best bassist/drummer they ever played with. Eric was the cream (no pun intended) of the crop amongst guitarists, so it only made sense for the three of them to play together. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-cream-overrated/836757/47 "2019-07-13T18:17:00Z")
Sorry for the flood, but his is close (obviously) to my heart and ears. While Eric makes himself out to be the ‘victim’ of Jack and Ginger’s battles, it wasn’t the only factor leading to Cream’s demise. By 1968, he was planning his exit from Cream, just as he left The Yardbirds and Bluesbreakers earlier and other bands post Cream because he wanted to play something else, in this case being highly influenced by The Band’s “Music from Big Pink”. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-cream-overrated/836757/48 "2019-07-13T20:06:53Z")
I remember when [Leonard Bernstein said he was impressed with Cream, and especially with Ginger Baker](https://books.google.ca/books?id=PgoWNH22yTMC&pg=PA182&lpg=PA182&dq=leonard+bernstein+%22ginger+baker%22&source=bl&ots=6AIjGqc4c6&sig=ACfU3U32mc_fqdioJgJDsGsu_uHPK7amBw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjPs9271rLjAhVJU80KHae4BdoQ6AEwFnoECDAQAQ#v=onepage&q=leonard%20bernstein%20%22ginger%20baker%22&f=false).\* To me, at 13, this was vindication! \*bottom paragraph in linked page (182) from Google Books [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-cream-overrated/836757.md?page=2)