# Was DC Comics Crisis On infinite Earths really necessary? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 27, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852 "2018-06-27T17:55:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/21 "2018-06-30T03:23:07Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m entirely mystified by people who like comics but hate Squirrel Girl. It’s like saying you like candy, but hate sugar. Yeah, I’ve got to agree with this. In a field of vanilla pap and treacle, Squirrel Girl is one of the most original things either of the big 2 are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/22 "2018-06-30T03:23:46Z")
> [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](#): > > Fenris: I’ve been reading the “Tomb of Dracula” series and my reaction upon reading #1 was: “My God, Gerry Conway actually wrote something worth reading.” He did a number of books well. Daredevil, Spider-man, Batman, firestorm. He also did the worst runs ever of fantastic four, avengers, Legion, and justice league. The man simply could not write team books That said, Conway’s Tomb of Dracula was very quickly superseded by Wolfman’s brilliant writing on it-around issue eight and onward ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/23 "2018-06-30T11:10:38Z")
It wasn’t the crisis we needed, but it was the crisis we deserved. I think DC could probably have done something akin to Marvel’s “Ultimate” spinoff, basically just create another universe to revamp many of their flagship characters, jettison a lot of baggage and tinker with many of the long-established tropes, and if they prove popular, gradually retcon some of the elements into the “main” continuity. Basically New 52, only twenty-five years earlier. Still, I can’t fault them for trying something fairly ambitious. The comic industry as a whole was pretty shaky in the 1980s and 90s, and it wouldn’t surprise me if it eventually is kept alive (even running at a loss) simply to maintain trademarks that can be licensed more profitably to other media. [The licensing on Batman merchandise alone is worth nearly a half-billion a year.](https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/272554) For that kind of scratch, Warner can afford to keep DC comics around. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/24 "2018-06-30T12:55:45Z")
I just want to say something to the DC execs (who I’m sure are reading this, instead of playing with their grandchildren in their private pools): Your audience loves comics. Only a few of us obsess about continuity nit-picks, most of us just want a good story. I’m a Denizen Of The Budget Bins myself, and have no problem going home with a Supergirl who’s Supe’s young cousin, and another where she’s protoplasm; a classic (Marshall Rogers) Batman and another where I get to call a 900 number, a Lois Lane where she’s fighting with Lana for Superman’s affections…oh, and here’s another where she’s got them (and knows he’s Clark Kent!). And let’s see, I’ve got a Mister Miracle where he’s just an escape artist and another where Kirby’s made him a new god… and, whoa, look what Jack did with Jimmy! And here are twelve different Hawkmen… But they’re each “a good read” (my comic book guy’s highest acclaim). THAT’S what I want, and what’ll keep me reading, instead of watching TV or getting things done. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/25 "2018-06-30T15:26:19Z")
Just before CRISIS, the tangle of multiple Earths made some comics downright unreadable. The annual JLA-JSA tradition had, by that point, turned into an unfathomable clusterfuck. Streamlining the continuity actually made for better storytelling for about a decade. ---
**Author:** ![Textual\_Assault](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@Textual\_Assault](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Textual_Assault)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/26 "2018-06-30T15:33:19Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Just before CRISIS, the tangle of multiple Earths made some comics downright unreadable. The annual JLA-JSA tradition had, by that point, turned into an unfathomable clusterfuck. Streamlining the continuity actually made for better storytelling for about a decade. But the JSA didn’t even have their own book at the time, right? There was just All Star Squadron which had ALL Earth 2 heros including the JSA? As for the Batman family from earth 2 still being around, wasn’t that before the final final battle with Anti-Monitor in issue 12? I seem to recall a building collapsing on Earth 2’s Robin or Huntress in issue 12. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/27 "2018-07-01T03:23:46Z")
> [@Textual\_Assault](#): > > But the JSA didn’t even have their own book at the time, right? There was just All Star Squadron which had ALL Earth 2 heros including the JSA? Between ALL-STAR SQUADRON and INFINITY INC., plus the annual JLA team-ups that went two issues apiece issues and the frequent Secret Origins stories set in the Golden Age, I’d say the Justice Society was pretty well-represented at that point. I wish I could find R. Fiore’s COMICS JOURNAL review of JLA 232, with such zingers as (I’m paraphrasing here) “A team-up between Superman of Earth-1, Plastic Man of Earth Q and the Aquaman Without Portfolio. Will Dr. Fate cure his inner demons? Will Batman unlock the secret that makes his life a living hell? I give up on this crap.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/28 "2018-07-01T03:56:30Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Superboy (the one that inspired the Legion) had to be shoved into a pocket universe because Byrne’s Superman reboot had him never be Superboy. Tell me more of this reboot that has Superboy not existing. Did Jonathan and Martha Kent find a grown man in the spaceship that crashed in front of their truck? Did Kal-El grow to manhood during his journey from Krypton to Earth (actually that would make more sense than the ship traveling at several multiples of light speed)? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/29 "2018-07-01T03:59:11Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Between ALL-STAR SQUADRON and INFINITY INC., plus the annual JLA team-ups that went two issues apiece issues and the frequent Secret Origins stories set in the Golden Age, I’d say the Justice Society was pretty well-represented at that point. If we’re thinking of the same Secret Origins series — the one that kicked off with the Golden Age Superman, and soon ran the gamut from the Golden Age Batman and the Golden Age Hawkman to Johnny Thunder and the Sandman — then, yes, it did plenty of Fifty-Years-Ago-Today stuff with guys like Doctor Occult and Tex Thompson and Zatara; but that iteration of it came out _after_ CRISIS, didn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/30 "2018-07-01T04:20:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Tell me more of this reboot that has Superboy not existing. Did Jonathan and Martha Kent find a grown man in the spaceship that crashed in front of their truck? Did Kal-El grow to manhood during his journey from Krypton to Earth (actually that would make more sense than the ship traveling at several multiples of light speed)? In this version, he didn’t develop superpowers until he grew up. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/31 "2018-07-01T04:23:43Z")
In the modern version, he had some of his powers from a young age, but he was never publicly active as a hero until Superman showed up, soon after Clark moved to Metropolis. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/32 "2018-07-01T05:32:52Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > In this version, he didn’t develop superpowers until he grew up. Then how did he lift that tractor as a baby? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/33 "2018-07-01T05:38:18Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > In the modern version, he had some of his powers from a young age, \ Well, if they included baby-tractor-lifting, then I guess it’s okay. But no fleet of robot Superboy stand-ins? C’mon! Byrne’s reboot is the one that SHOULD be in a pocket universe… ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/34 "2018-07-01T06:25:57Z")
> [@Textual\_Assault](#): > > The only comics that dealt with Earth 2 were All star Squadron which was set in WWII and Infinity Inc which was set in the modern era. > > But I also recall something about Superboy and the Legion really messing things up, could this be true? There’s also the origin of Black Canary, who moved from Earth-2 to Earth-1, no wait, now it’s her daughter who moved from Earth-2 to Earth-1, or maybe it’s her daughter’s body with the mother’s memories or some dumb shit. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/35 "2018-07-01T07:11:13Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > If we’re thinking of the same Secret Origins series — the one that kicked off with the Golden Age Superman, and soon ran the gamut from the Golden Age Batman and the Golden Age Hawkman to Johnny Thunder and the Sandman — then, yes, it did plenty of Fifty-Years-Ago-Today stuff with guys like Doctor Occult and Tex Thompson and Zatara; but that iteration of it came out _after_ CRISIS, didn’t it? You’re right, April 1986 to August 1990 according to Wiki. There was just a long period, from about 1981-89, where they gave Roy Thomas _carte blanche_ to do whatever he wanted with the JSA and related characters, and I guess more happened after the Crisis than before. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/36 "2018-07-01T07:16:56Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > There’s also the origin of Black Canary, who moved from Earth-2 to Earth-1, no wait, now it’s her daughter who moved from Earth-2 to Earth-1, or maybe it’s her daughter’s body with the mother’s memories or some dumb shit. [Relevant **Super Stupor.**](http://www.superstupor.com/sust08042008.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/37 "2018-07-02T19:49:59Z")
I say the first one was thoroughly un necessary. I never understood what ‘problems’ it was intended to fix. The only good thing to come out of Crises was the Mighty Mouse parody epic “Mices On Infinite Earths!”. When I think back to how he barely stopped the Anti Minataur, I get chills I does. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/38 "2018-07-02T19:58:32Z")
Personally, I think they made her just a bit too tough and competent. Squirell climbing- Better than Nightcrawler’s and just a bit shy of Spidey’s abilities. Squirrel agility- I’d like to see more of this in use. Squirrels are great acrobats. I have an issue of something or other where loving adoptive father and daughter Thanos and Gammorah are re united again. They celebrate by trying to kill each other. It’s all in fun because Gammorah, deadly as she is, can not get the necessary force to pierce Purple Puss’ hide. Ol Raisin Chin is certainly strong enough to hurt Gammorah. But, she’s too fast and nimble. Again and again she dances out of reach of his fists. That is how I see Squirrel girl. Army Of Squirrels- Marvel’s writers see this as way more useful than I do. ---
**Author:** ![Textual\_Assault](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@Textual\_Assault](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Textual_Assault)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/39 "2018-07-02T21:14:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The comic industry as a whole was pretty shaky in the 1980s and 90s, and it wouldn’t surprise me if it eventually is kept alive (even running at a loss) simply to maintain trademarks that can be licensed more profitably to other media. [The licensing on Batman merchandise alone is worth nearly a half-billion a year.](https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/272554) For that kind of scratch, Warner can afford to keep DC comics around. Um, no. Miller’s Dark Knight Returns was huge, Maus got a bunch of attention, Byrne’s Superman reboot was big news, Alan Moore had Swamp Thing and then Watchmen. In the 90’s you had the rise of multiple first issues with multiple covers, X-men being perhaps the most egregious of these, but it still sold over 2,000,000 copies McFarlane’s run on Amazing Spiderman and Spiderman then the creation and debut of Image, Gaiman had Sandman and even garth Ennis got in the game with Preacher. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852/40 "2018-07-03T05:40:27Z")
> [@Textual\_Assault](#): > > Um, no. > > Miller’s Dark Knight Returns was huge, Maus got a bunch of attention, Byrne’s Superman reboot was big news, Alan Moore had Swamp Thing and then Watchmen. In the 90’s you had the rise of multiple first issues with multiple covers, X-men being perhaps the most egregious of these, but it still sold over 2,000,000 copies McFarlane’s run on Amazing Spiderman and Spiderman then the creation and debut of Image, Gaiman had Sandman and even garth Ennis got in the game with Preacher. Um, yes. I had a job interview with Tom DeFalco in 1984 and he basically told me that nobody expected comics to still be around in a few more years. The Image kids destroyed their fans’ goodwill with those stunts, and Alan Moore’s chief accomplishment was to inspire a lot of really inferior imitators. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-dc-comics-crisis-on-infinite-earths-really-necessary/816852.md?page=3)