# Was "Doubting Thomas" Denied Salvation? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 1, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571 "2009-07-01T12:39:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/1 "2009-07-01T12:39:15Z")
I have always been puzzled by Jesus’ putdown of his apostle Thomas. Thomas is only human, and wonders if he can believe his eyes (at the sight of the risen Jesus). So, he asks Jesus for proof…and Jesus puts him down, in front of the other apostles. The gospels are not clear on this, but did Jesus punish Thomas for his skepticism? ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/2 "2009-07-01T14:00:37Z")
No. Thomas stayed an apostle and presumably did lots of missionary work. (Legend has it he went to India, and some Indian Christians claim descent from his original converts, but I don’t know much about it.) Thomas, like all the apostles, suffered from a lack of faith at some point, but most of them repented and moved on, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/3 "2009-07-01T16:57:57Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I have always been puzzled by Jesus’ putdown of his apostle Thomas. Thomas is only human, and wonders if he can believe his eyes (at the sight of the risen Jesus). So, he asks Jesus for proof..and Jesus puts him down, in front of the other apostles. > The gospels are not clear on this, but did Jesus punish Thomas for his skepticism? I’m not sure your description quite squares with the gospel account, from John 20: > [@](#): > > Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” > > ``` > But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it." > > ``` > > A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” > > Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” > > Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” As I see it, Thomas was not necessarily any more of a skeptic than the other disciples; he just wasn’t there when they were. And Jesus’s words to Thomas were not necessarily a rebuke, but they can be taken as an acknowledgement that future Christians, like Thomas, wouldn’t have “been there” to see the risen Christ for themselves and would have to believe without seeing. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/4 "2009-07-01T17:08:43Z")
Also, tradition holds that Thomas was himself eventually martyred by being run through with a spear, so you figure that has to count for something. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/5 "2009-07-01T17:53:15Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’m not sure your description quite squares with the gospel account, from John 20:As I see it, Thomas was not necessarily any more of a skeptic than the other disciples; he just wasn’t there when they were. And Jesus’s words to Thomas were not necessarily a rebuke, but they can be taken as an acknowledgement that future Christians, like Thomas, wouldn’t have “been there” to see the risen Christ for themselves and would have to believe without seeing. Right – in the context of the gospels, there are more than one instances of one or more disciples not believing or understanding it at the very first notice (see: Matt. 28:17; Mark 16:9-14; Luke 24: 9-12; 36-44) and requiring his direct intervention or that of a heavenly messenger. The message in this passage is of course directed, 50 years after the alleged events as the last few original apostles/disciples were dying off, to the next generations of converts who would not have the benefit of leaders who “were _there_, man!”; the gospel writer has Jesus saying to those future Christians: “You will be expected to take it on faith, you won’t get to ask for physical proof.” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/6 "2009-07-01T18:06:23Z")
Thomas Didymus, according to tradition (that is, legend) remained an apostle in good standing and went out to evangelize India. He had done his duty in the drama, which was to discourage Christians from cultivating, let alone using, critical thinking skulls. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/7 "2009-07-01T20:13:13Z")
As my pastor put it once, Thomas has gotten a bad rap. He was simply asking for the same evidence that all the others had already seen. Earlier in John 20: 19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20 **And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side**. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord. Jesus, knowing that _all of them_ would doubt without evidence, showed them his wounds immediately after greeting them. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/8 "2009-07-01T23:31:34Z")
Remember, Peter not just doubted Jesus but _betrayed_ him, three times. He still went on to greatness. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/9 "2009-07-01T23:42:31Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Thomas Didymus, according to tradition (that is, legend) remained an apostle in good standing and went out to evangelize India. He had done his duty in the drama, which was to discourage Christians from cultivating, let alone using, critical thinking skulls. Actually, Bishop (and maybe soon-to-be-Saint) Fulton J. Sheen extolled Thomas for it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/10 "2009-07-01T23:47:22Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Actually, Bishop (and maybe soon-to-be-Saint) Fulton J. Sheen extolled Thomas for it. Ted, Ted, Ted, Ted, Ted. You KNOW how I feel about facts when they contradict my position. 😉 More seriously, while there are plenty of Xtians like you, Polycarp, & tomndebb who are given to thought, reason, & education, there are also plenty like a certain Pentecostal pastor I could name who seriously teaches that the only inspired version of the Bible is the King James Version, and that contraditctions between it and any other versions–INCLUDING MANUSCRIPTS IN GREEK, ARAMAIC, AND HEBREW – are the fault fo those versions, not the KJG. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/11 "2009-07-02T01:20:00Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Ted, Ted, Ted, Ted, Ted. You KNOW how I feel about facts when they contradict my position. 😉 > More seriously, while there are plenty of Xtians like you, Polycarp, & tomndebb who are given to thought, reason, & education, there are also plenty like a certain Pentecostal pastor I could name who seriously teaches that the only inspired version of the Bible is the King James Version, and that contraditctions between it and any other versions–INCLUDING MANUSCRIPTS IN GREEK, ARAMAIC, AND HEBREW – are the fault fo those versions, not the KJG. G? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/12 "2009-07-02T03:09:30Z")
One of the few passages that mentions Thomas is John 11:16, which suggests that Thomas was a very loyal and brave disciple. When Jesus is about to return to Bethany, where angry crowds have threatened to kill him before, Thomas is the one who says, “Let us go there and die with him.” His disbelief in Jesus’ resurrection was unfortunate but very understandable. However, his devotion to Jesus was evident. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/13 "2009-07-02T03:20:17Z")
Yes he was, if you recall you are saved because of your faith. And once doubting Thomas saw Jesus he had faith again. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/14 "2009-07-02T04:31:07Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I have always been puzzled by Jesus’ putdown of his apostle Thomas. Thomas is only human, and wonders if he can believe his eyes (at the sight of the risen Jesus). So, he asks Jesus for proof..and Jesus puts him down, in front of the other apostles. > The gospels are not clear on this, but did Jesus punish Thomas for his skepticism? Yeah, so you do understand that you do not have the story correct, right? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/15 "2009-07-02T09:45:19Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Actually, Bishop (and maybe soon-to-be-Saint) Fulton J. Sheen extolled Thomas for it. On what basis? I mean - was he praising the skepticism and desire for proof? If so, why wouldn’t you expect the same desire out of modern believers? ---
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/16 "2009-07-02T11:03:31Z")
[quote=“dangermom, post:2, topic:501571”] (Legend has it he went to India, and some Indian Christians claim descent from his original converts, but I don’t know much about it.) QUOTE] About [Christianity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malankara_Church) in Kerala,India . Malankara church of Kerala is believed to have started by St Thomas, the apostle of Jesus christ. He landed in Kerala in AD52. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/17 "2009-07-02T11:19:27Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Thomas Didymus, according to tradition (that is, legend) remained an apostle in good standing and went out to evangelize India. He had done his duty in the drama, which was to discourage Christians from cultivating, let alone using, critical thinking skulls. ☹ And we’d been doing so well, too. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/18 "2009-07-02T12:00:33Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > On what basis? I mean - was he praising the skepticism and desire for proof? If so, why wouldn’t you expect the same desire out of modern believers? Actually, he praised Thomas both for wanting the same experience as his fellow disciples, AND for demanding that this alleged Jesus show His wounds as His ID, and not accepting any purported Risen Savior Who comes unwounded. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/19 "2009-07-02T13:06:21Z")
For some reason the people who decided what was inspired by God, did not use the writings of Thomas to be included in the Bible. I always wondered about that. Thomas was supposed to be a witness to the events as they happened, but some writers who got their information second hand at best were chosen over Thomas…wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571/20 "2009-07-02T13:28:38Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > For some reason the people who decided what was inspired by God, did not use the writings of Thomas to be included in the Bible. I always wondered about that. > > Thomas was supposed to be a witness to the events as they happened, but some writers who got their information second hand at best were chosen over Thomas…wonder why? I assume you are referring to the _Gospel of Thomas_ and associated writings. First, there is was no evidence that it was written by the Apostle Thomas - dates are uncertain, but it appears to be of later authorship. It did not appear to be widely distributed among the early church, and reflects a gnostic theology (_These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke_). For these reasons, it had no claim to fit into the canon. Si [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-doubting-thomas-denied-salvation/501571.md?page=2)