# Was Eden a real place? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2007, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eden-a-real-place/427009 "2007-11-19T04:34:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eden-a-real-place/427009/61 "2007-11-20T19:00:24Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] Alas, the Identity folk have taken that idea & run with it. Remove the racist overtones & it’s pretty compelling for those of us who want to reconcile Genesis with what we know of human origins. Where I mainly differ from the Identity version- I don’t regard Eve’s temptation by the Serpent as being sexual, with Cain as their offspring, and I don’t see the mixing of the Adamites with the others as being forbidden. The only forbidden mixing would be if the others rejected the Adamic revelation of God. Also, another major problem became the oppression of the non-Adamic people by tyrranical Adamites, the Nephilim. Btw, while I’m presenting this idea as if I’ve accepted it totally, I must clarify that it’s just a theory I’m playing with to see how seriously I can treat it. [/QUOTE] If there are non-Adamite humans, with descendants who didn’t breed with the descendants of Adam and Eve, would they have been covered by original sin? This would be pre-flood, since post-flood everyone was descended from Adam. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eden-a-real-place/427009/62 "2007-11-20T19:40:48Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] **Blake** : Can you back up that with cites? I’m having a hard time believing that there are “no forests” in a place like, say, Lebanon. [/QUOTE] Having been to Lebanon, there are forests there. Not exactly dense like you’d find in the northwest USA, but still a forest., Now Qatar… yeah, pretty much no forests there. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eden-a-real-place/427009/63 "2007-11-20T19:49:06Z")
If anyone is interested in the forest issue, [here](http://www.unep-wcmc.org/habitats/mountains/met.htm#) is a map of the ME region showing forest regions. -XT ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eden-a-real-place/427009/64 "2007-11-21T04:53:01Z")
Wait, so the Fertile Crescent didn’t desertify from salination? (As for Eden, I’m leaning toward it being in the same category as Avalon & Valhalla.) ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eden-a-real-place/427009/65 "2007-11-21T19:06:33Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] If there are non-Adamite humans, with descendants who didn’t breed with the descendants of Adam and Eve, would they have been covered by original sin? This would be pre-flood, since post-flood everyone was descended from Adam. [/QUOTE] Good Q- I’ve puzzled over that myself. Now, I’m kinda soft of Original Sin anyway so let me get back to that later. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eden-a-real-place/427009/66 "2007-11-21T20:19:25Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > it’s pretty compelling for those of us who want to reconcile Genesis with what we know of human origins. Why do you want to do this? Also, if the Garden of Eden is currently underwater, how does the angel keep the flaming sword lit? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eden-a-real-place/427009/67 "2007-11-21T20:41:45Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley] Also, if the Garden of Eden is currently underwater, how does the angel keep the flaming sword lit? [/QUOTE] Thermite? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2007, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eden-a-real-place/427009/68 "2007-11-21T21:01:23Z")
I’m guessing magic… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2007, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eden-a-real-place/427009/69 "2007-11-23T05:52:56Z")
[QUOTE=Blake] What appears to have happened is that human populations expanded to agricultural carrying capacity based on a relatively benign climate. When the climate changed abruptly around 7, 000 years ago the popualtion couldn’t be supported on the same amount of land. People over exploited the land they did have leading to severe erosion and nutrient depletion. That in turn made cultivation impossible in many areas and the popuaton was forced to switch to herding. Grazing animals prompltly stripped the land of all vegetation, further exacerbating the existing problems. And hey presto before they knew it they had a desert. [/QUOTE] If you think about it, this relates quite nicely to a couple other Old Testament stories. Genesis 9 has God handing out a few commands to Noah and his family after the flood. Among these was the command to “Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.” Implicit in this was the idea that they were supposed to _spread out_, because He knew that they would eventually strip the land bare. Instead, they all pretty much settled down in a region fairly close to where the ark landed, and proceeded to be fruitful and multiply _right there_. That led to Genesis 11, the Tower of Babel story, many generations later. The Tower itself, whether physically real or merely symbolic, represents man once again thinking he knows better than God. In this case, it was man’s way of saying, “No, we like it right here.” This pissed God off. “All right,” He said, “When I said ‘spread out’ I meant ‘spread out’. If you’re not gonna do it yourselves, I’ll do it for you.” Zap, He confused their languages, essentially forcing those who could understand each other to band together, head 'em up, and move 'em out. Anyway, that’s how I once heard it explained. YMMV. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eden-a-real-place/427009.md?page=3)