# Was Eric (Phantom of the Opera) impotent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 21, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776 "2005-09-21T20:47:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/21 "2005-09-22T00:53:56Z")
I just reread the book about nine months ago (the Annotated version, which has finally been republished), and I can’t recall anything in it about impotence. Certainly there’s nothing about it inany of the film versions I’ve seen – and I think I’ve seen them all (even the awful Robert Englund one). I suspect it’s an invention of Andrew Lloyd Webber or one his lyricist. My wife, Pepper Mill, Phantom fan extraordinare, thinks that the line “has also denied me the joys of the flesh” simply means that he was unable or unwilling to approach women. I can elate. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/22 "2005-09-22T01:01:39Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I coulda sworn it was “unfeeling” (this is especially noticable in the cast recordering with Crawford. The man announciates well). > > I never once thought that he was impotent, just a crazy dude who was obsessed (or beautifully in love) with Christine. The way I see it: he could have raped some woman or gotten a hooker, but he wanted JUST Christine. He wouldn’t rape her because he wanted her to actually want him. I disagree. He was willing to murder Raoul to get her to wed him; that’s certainly rape of a sort. And I rather think that if Raoul hadn’t shown up to give him an edge, or if Christine had done as Raoul asked and let him die, the Phantom would still have forced himself upon her had he been capable. In fact, reading that, I retract my earlier contention that Eric was impotent. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/23 "2005-09-22T01:25:51Z")
I remember a scene in the book in which Christine relates to Raoul through the mirrored wall of the torture room that she’s tried to kill herself by knocking her head against the wall, but the Phantom restrained her and presented her with the scorpion/grasshopper choice. Which is curious: at that point, he obviously doesn’t care if she really loves him or not (your would-be fiance trying to kill herself instead of marrying you is a pretty big clue, there), but he still wants her to “choose” him by turning the scorpion. But then, the Phantom of the book is even more of a raving loony than the Phantom of the play, so I don’t know how much stock we can set in consistent characterization. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/24 "2005-09-22T08:47:10Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > Hmm, are you calling Christine a tactless hussy, or are you saying the Phantom was? Beause the rape question seems pretty reasonable to me. Well, if I had meant to say that I interpret the Phantom’s answer as telling the tactless hussy that he couldn’t, you’d have grounds for the question. But instead of using reported-speech mode, I put my paraphrase in quotes. And why yes, at that time and place Christine’s question was reasonable. Last year I had the pleasure of playing Dr. Falke in _Die Fledermaus_, and in the scene at Orlovsky’s ball where he recognises Adele and she begs him not to give her away, Falke says “I won’t, if you’ll do something for me”. The way our excellent Adele played this piece of dialogue, her fluttering reply “What do you want me to do?” was a perfect feed line for “I suppose a shag would be out of the question?”, and I just had to ad-lib that once during rehearsal 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/25 "2005-09-22T13:06:53Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Well, if I had meant to say that I interpret the Phantom’s answer as telling the tactless hussy that he couldn’t, you’d have grounds for the question. But instead of using reported-speech mode, I put my paraphrase in quotes. And why yes, at that time and place Christine’s question was reasonable. So why do **you** call Christine a tactless hussy? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/26 "2005-09-22T13:25:45Z")
I don’t. That was the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![Madd\_Maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/27 "2005-09-22T15:52:21Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Then there’s the line from the deleted scene of the musical in which he sings to Christine: > > “Your face, which makes my love flow like Niagara… > a shame we live twelve de-cades before Viagra… > or then I’d sex you up > instead of messing French dudes up > and to the editors of Penthouse I would write… > Let Me Tell You Bout the French Babe I banged last night…” > > which would imply he was impotent. Come on, no one else laughed at this? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/28 "2005-09-22T16:41:55Z")
I have the soundtrack from the musical (with the original Canadian cast) and the lyric booklet says “unfeeling scrap of clothing.” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/29 "2005-09-22T16:53:14Z")
> [@Madd Maxx](#): > > Come on, no one else laughed at this? Even now I am sending the Maxx who isn’t me an invoce for my destroyed laptop. ---
**Author:** ![Susie\_Derkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Susie\_Derkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susie_Derkins)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/30 "2005-09-22T16:55:48Z")
> [@Madd Maxx](#): > > Come on, no one else laughed at this? So hard I nearly choked on my uvula!! ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/31 "2005-09-22T17:24:42Z")
Of _course_ he was impotent. Just look at the way he dressed! ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/32 "2005-09-22T19:26:42Z")
I realize that this strays from both the original book and the musical, but Frederick Forsyth wrote a short novel called _The Phantom of Manhattan_ which serves as a non-musical sequel. In the book, which takes place some years later… …we discover that Christine’s child, whom everyone assumed to have been Raoul’s, could not have been. Raoul, as it turns out, had suffered a nasty wound to the groin area (fighting off a mugger, IIRC) that had, well, incapacitated his manhood. The book is mostly about the relationship that grows between the child and Eric, who is now living the American Dream in NY. Again, this is not an “official” part of the story, but as I recall, Forsyth’s introduction says something about having gotten ALW’s enthusiastic approval for his addendum. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/33 "2005-09-22T19:38:04Z")
> [@Kizarvexius](#): > > I realize that this strays from both the original book and the musical, but Frederick Forsyth wrote a short novel called _The Phantom of Manhattan_ which serves as a non-musical sequel. In the book, which takes place some years later… > > …we discover that Christine’s child, whom everyone assumed to have been Raoul’s, could not have been. Raoul, as it turns out, had suffered a nasty wound to the groin area (fighting off a mugger, IIRC) that had, well, incapacitated his manhood. The book is mostly about the relationship that grows between the child and Eric, who is now living the American Dream in NY. > > Again, this is not an “official” part of the story, but as I recall, Forsyth’s introduction says something about having gotten ALW’s enthusiastic approval for his addendum. And ALW immediately withdrew his approval once that book was written. I paid a quarter for it at my local library and I was overcharged. Trivia note: ALW also wrote the score for the movie The Odessa File, based on Forsyth’s book. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/34 "2005-09-22T19:46:21Z")
> [@bobkitty](#): > > Sure, living in a sewer would limit the possibilities a bit, but he appears to have normal male urges… what’s prevented him from pursuing others? That bastard Vincent kept cock-blocking him! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/35 "2005-09-22T20:11:42Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > That bastard Vincent kept cock-blocking him! Vincent was a Beast, not a bastard, you bastard. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/36 "2005-09-22T20:20:18Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > Vincent was a Beast, not a bastard, you bastard. :wally Hey, let’s just say that when Vin coughed up hairballs, it wasn’t from licking his _own_ fur. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/37 "2005-09-22T20:25:40Z")
> [@Fabulous Creature](#): > > [snobbish nerd] > I haven’t seen the movie, as I was unwilling to gouge out my eyes. > [/snobbish nerd] Having seen the stage version a half dozen times or so, it was interesting to see the movie version. It was a nice job. I will say, however, that I really wish they could have gotten Crawford and Brightman to do the lead roles as originally planned. Although Emmy Rossum and Gerard Butler did adequate jobs, I just don’t think they had the passion and presence that Crawford/Brightman would have brought to the screen. ---
**Author:** ![Draelin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@Draelin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Draelin)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/38 "2005-09-22T20:53:45Z")
You can put me in the “unfeeling” camp–that’s what Crawford says, but ALW seems to change lyrics as it suits him. It honestly never occurred to me that Erik might be impotent. I think I was too young to grasp the idea when I first saw the play, and that may have colored my perceptions. Now, I can understand why one might think so, but I can’t bring myself to agree. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/39 "2005-09-22T21:08:42Z")
> [@Draelin](#): > > You can put me in the “unfeeling” camp–that’s what Crawford says, but ALW seems to change lyrics as it suits him. > > It honestly never occurred to me that Erik might be impotent. I think I was too young to grasp the idea when I first saw the play, and that may have colored my perceptions. Now, I can understand why one might think so, but I can’t bring myself to agree. I’m out of the “concealing” camp and in the “unfeeling,” and I’m the one who brought it up in the first place. :smack: A close listen to the soundtrack supports the rest of y’all. Also, I’m certain ALW has naught to do with the lyrics anywhistle. I’m sure I could find out who wrote Phantom’s lyrics and book, but I’m just too lazy to do so know… Too lazy to google. Hmmpf. No wonder I’m going to hell. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776/40 "2005-09-22T21:16:40Z")
Lyrics by Charles Hart and Richard Stilgoe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-eric-phantom-of-the-opera-impotent/322776.md?page=3)