# Was F Troop the first..spinoff? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 24, 2001, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-f-troop-the-first-spinoff/73634 "2001-07-24T16:00:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-f-troop-the-first-spinoff/73634/21 "2001-07-24T23:22:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > \*\* > As for spinoffs, they probably predate Shakespeare’s re-use of Falstaff in “The Merry Wives of Windsor” after he was in “Henry IV” (or was that the other way around?) > \*\* I think you have it right. Sir John Falstaff appears originally in “Henry IV (Part 2?)”, then reprises his role in “The Merry Wives of Windsor”. (By request of Queen Elizabeth herself, if I remember right.) He finally dies at the beginning of “Henry V”. I think Danny Thomas helped launch TAGS by appearing in the pilot, or maybe by having Griffith appear once on his show. IMHO, that doesn’t really make it a spinoff. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-f-troop-the-first-spinoff/73634/22 "2001-07-25T01:24:29Z")
This thread reminds me of a question that I’ve been planning to ask the regulars of the SDMB. The question is: What’s the largest TV universe? Call two TV series part of the same TV universe if there is a chain of character connections between them. A character connection between two series exists if any actor has appeared on the two series playing the same character. To eliminate famous actors appearing as themselves, we don’t count an actor playing himself as a character connection. People have already named some of the larger TV universes (the Star Trek universe, the Danny Thomas universe, the _Happy Days_ universe). There was also quite a large _All in the Family_ universe, and I believe many of the series created by David E. Kelley form a universe. Let me suggest a large one that hasn’t been mentioned yet: the John Munch universe. John Munch is the character played by Richard Beltzer which originated on _Homicide_. He’s also played that character on _Law and Order_, _Law and Order: Special Victims Unit_, _The X Files_, and _The Beat_. I suspect that this universe can be enlarged with other character connections. O.K., now we have to define what measure to put on a TV universe to tell how large it is. One way would be to just count the number of different series in the universe. The _Happy Days_ universe would probably win this, but I don’t think this is the best way to measure the universe. Most of the spin-offs in that universe didn’t last very long. I propose that the measure be the total length of all the episodes of all the series in the universes. I suspect that the John Munch universe will be the largest because _Law and Order_, when it reaches its fifteen season (which it’s already contracted for), will be the second longest series in U.S. TV history after _Gunsmoke_, and _Homicide_ and _The X Files_ also have long runs. And these are hour-long shows, not half-hour ones. ---
**Author:** ![Labdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-f-troop-the-first-spinoff/73634/23 "2001-07-25T17:29:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reeder \* > \*\*CalMeacham > > Love American Style was an ensemble show. Doesn’t fit the mold. Where is the connection to Love American style? Most of those you mentioned aren’t connected at all. Just offsprings of the later shows. \*\* “Happy Days” had its genesis as an episode of “Love American Style” entitled “Love and the Happy Day.” So while not a spin off per se, it did have it’s origins on “LAS.” ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-f-troop-the-first-spinoff/73634/24 "2001-07-25T17:49:45Z")
But “Love American Style” was not a show with recurring characters, but rather a collection of short unconnected comedy pieces. The only thing they had in common is that the title of each piece started with the word “Love”. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-f-troop-the-first-spinoff/73634/25 "2001-07-25T19:09:06Z")
Reeder: I admit I make mistakes, but you’ve associated my name with one I didn’t – if you look back in the thread you’ll find that someone else proposed that \*\* Love American Style\*\* had the most spinoffs. FWIW, if you interpret “spoinoffs” liberally as “shows that tried out on the initial show”, then there _were_ at least three direct “spinoffs” from LAS – the aforementioned **Happy Days** , the prime-time cartoon series \*\* Wait 'til Your Father Gets Home\*\*, and **Barefoot in the Park** , based on the Neil Simon play. You could tell these were pilots, because they were better written and acted than the usual run of LAS shows. I see that I’m wrong about No Time for Sergeants – Sha-Zayam! I could have sworn NTFS was on the tube _much_ earlier than Gomer Pyle. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-f-troop-the-first-spinoff/73634/26 "2001-07-25T22:08:10Z")
Calmeacham…my apologies. I guees I looked up at the post and just caught your name in bold. Forgive me. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-f-troop-the-first-spinoff/73634/27 "2001-07-25T23:08:51Z")
I’d just like to say that “The John Munch Universe” would be a fantastic name for a band. ---
**Author:** ![Santos\_L\_Halper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/santos_l_halper/32/1_2.png) [@Santos\_L\_Halper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santos_L_Halper)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2001, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-f-troop-the-first-spinoff/73634/28 "2001-07-26T07:03:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wendell Wagner \* > \*\*…because _Law and Order_, when it reaches its fifteen season (which it’s already contracted for), will be the second longest series in U.S. TV history after _Gunsmoke_… \*\* \ Unless the Simpsons is still on the air, because it started before L&O. As for it being second to Gunsmoke, if you go by seasons, it would be. If you go by the number of episodes, there are several shows ahead (TV shows used to have many more episodes per season than they do now). Check out [this guy’s site](http://www.angelfire.com/trek/proutsy) for a list of shows with the most number of episodes. \ Eric ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2001, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-f-troop-the-first-spinoff/73634/29 "2001-07-27T06:31:59Z")
**Reeder** : What is a spinoff? If we call it a show that uses characters and/or situations that originated on another show (seems reasonable to me), then Happy Days is clearly a spinoff of Love, American Style. An episode of the latter show was set in the Cunningham household of the 1950s and was about Richie going on a date. You could quibble about me taking it to another generation, crediting Love, American Style with other spinoffs of Happy Days, but I don’t see a fair way to deny the first connection. **Wendell Wagner** : > [@](#): > > This thread reminds me of a question that I’ve been planning to ask the regulars of the SDMB. The question is: What’s the largest TV universe? Good question, and Thom Holbrook has done most of the work for you: [Thom Holbrook’s Crossovers and Spinoffs Master Page](http://home.earthlink.net/~jinxo/maincrosslist.html). If you scroll to the bottom to the “Shared Reality” lists, you’ll find what you need. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-f-troop-the-first-spinoff/73634.md?page=1)