# Was Faramir's claim that he'd have left the Ring on the side of the road if he chanced to find it... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 30, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572 "2014-12-30T22:22:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/1 "2014-12-30T22:22:03Z")
… an accurate assessment of his own character and strength, or over-confident presumption? Movie-only people will not know whereof I speak, of course. I’d explain if I weren’t such a jackass, but I am so I won’t. And if you don’t like it, you can– Ah, what the hell. In Book IV of _The Lord of the Rings_\*, when Faramir and his men are having a sort of drumhead trial of Frodo and Sam,\*\* Faramir, who despite his clear Welsh\*\*\* ancestry is no fool, talks about the Ring without ever naming it that I can remember. Displaying knowledge of lore probably gained from Mithrandir,\*\*\*\* he claims that even if he found that-which-should-not-be-named-lest-a-fight-break-out on the side of the road, he would leave it there. Some people are bothered by this. Faramir’s immunity to the Ring’s lure (seemingly as strong as Neil Patrick Harris’s disinterest in Alyson Hannigan’s boobies), undercuts the idea that the One is as magically dangerous as the rest of book makes out. Why, when Gandalf and Galadriel feared to take custody of the Ring for even a moment, when the virtuous and kind Boromir was moved to attempt murder for it, is Denethor’s younger son immune? I’m not bothered, because I think Faramir overstated the case. He was more resistant than his brother, sure, but that was because he had studied ring-lore (and probably also rudimentary fireworks making) with Olorin\*\*\*\*\* and thus went into the conversation knowing its dangers. But if Big Daddy D had sent him to Rivendell rather than his brother, and thus he’d been one of the Nine Walkers, the Ring would have wormed its way into his heart, same way my daughter regularly persuades me to give her piggy-back rides no matter how tired I am. But that’s just me. So say we all? Wait, that’s _Battlestar Galactica_, sorry. But that’s just me. What do you think? - No, I am not going to use the phrase "second book of the trilogy,"and certainly I’m not gonna write The Two Towers except in tiny text. \*\* Well, Frodo. Nobody gives a fuck about Sam, except Rosie, and Frodo will kill her if she tries anything. \*\*\* Okay, it’s movie-Faramir who’s from Cardiff. Book-Faramir is a good egg. \*\*\*\* Gandalf, in the vulgar tongue. \*\*\*\*\* Gandalf again! I maintain that guy was on the run from multiple jurisdictions for not paying child support. Seriously, he was in Middle Earth for 2000 years; he must have gotten laid occasionally. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/2 "2014-12-30T22:28:57Z")
I don’t understand the question. I don’t see why it’s any different than Gandalf, or Galadriel or Aragorn. He knows like they do that touching it is where the real danger starts, and that he would rather walk away from it than take the risk. Seems like Avoiding Becoming a Wraith 101. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/3 "2014-12-30T22:56:29Z")
I think if he saw the ring on the side of the road, with a big neon sign indicating what it was, then, yes, he would avoid touching it, turn, and scarper orf with virtuous thoughts. However, if he was around it for a while, it’d get him - maybe it would take a while, maybe he’d end up working out of a more benevolent mindspace than Bor (it’s such a burden for the little guy, I’ll just carry it for him) but it would get him in the end. I do think that if he randomly picked it up and HELD it, and someone got to him quick enough, he could be convinced to let it go - Bilbo did, and I think that Faramir has as much willpower and intelligence (and lore) to fight against it. He’d have to stay far away from it after that, however, as he’d have blown his whole willpower on relinquishing it. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/4 "2014-12-30T22:57:08Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > … an accurate assessment of his own character and strength, or over-confident presumption? > > Movie-only people will not know whereof I speak, of course. I’d explain if I weren’t such a jackass, but I am so I won’t. And if you don’t like it, you can– > > Ah, what the hell. > > In Book IV of _The Lord of the Rings_\*, when Faramir and his men are having a sort of drumhead trial of Frodo and Sam,\*\* Faramir, who despite his clear Welsh\*\*\* ancestry is no fool, talks about the Ring without ever naming it that I can remember. Displaying knowledge of lore probably gained from Mithrandir,\*\*\*\* he claims that even if he found that-which-should-not-be-named-lest-a-fight-break-out on the side of the road, he would leave it there. > > Some people are bothered by this. Faramir’s immunity to the Ring’s lure (seemingly as strong as Neil Patrick Harris’s disinterest in Alyson Hannigan’s boobies), undercuts the idea that the One is as magically dangerous as the rest of book makes out. Why, when Gandalf and Galadriel feared to take custody of the Ring for even a moment, when the virtuous and kind Boromir was moved to attempt murder for it, is Denethor’s younger son immune? > > I’m not bothered, because I think Faramir overstated the case. He was more resistant than his brother, sure, but that was because he had studied ring-lore (and probably also rudimentary fireworks making) with Olorin\*\*\*\*\* and thus went into the conversation knowing its dangers. But if Big Daddy D had sent him to Rivendell rather than his brother, and thus he’d been one of the Nine Walkers, the Ring would have wormed its way into his heart, same way my daughter regularly persuades me to give her piggy-back rides no matter how tired I am. I agree that Faramir exaggerated. Exaggerating his disinterest may have been his strategy to avoid the danger, or (more likely) the Ring would have used his pride in his strength of will as its way to worm its way into his mind - first, by allowing him to hold the Ring safely, then by suggesting that only he could hold it safely, thus requiring him to insist on keeping it (to keep it safe) and so onto the “Precious” stage (gratuitous reference to NPH and Allyson Hannegan goes here). Famamir may have exaggerated his disinterest because he thought of the desire for the Ring as related to desire for glory and power - things that did not (much) affect him, but the Ring can use other desires (for admiration, or knowledge or gardens, etc.) to its ends. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/5 "2014-12-30T23:00:43Z")
Big WAG: Didn’t Gandalf\* and Galadriel have their own rings, so maybe it’s like antimatter where they can’t get too close to other, eviler, rings? Or more specifically, it would cause Sauron to be aware of or influence them greater? Otherwise I don’t know if they were being ultra-paranoid, except that demonic man is much less scary than demonic elf or demonic Maiar. I do think that Faramir may have been engaging in hyperbole, but at least had the sense to recognize that that weapon wasn’t worth using. Not just ring-lore, but also less arrogance or something than his brother. \*Narya given by Cirdan because the latter spent all his time hitting the pub and fixin’ ships to make much use of it. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/6 "2014-12-30T23:28:02Z")
It’s actually pretty clear that he _doesn’t_ know the thing he’s talking about is the one Ring, when he comes out with the whole ‘if it lay by the highway’ claim. He knows they have something powerful, and dangerous, that used to belong to Sauron, but not what it is. Once he actually knows they are talking about the ring (which, of course, was thought to be utterly lost or destroyed for centuries), he basically amends his claim to being only wise enough to know he shouldn’t have anything to do with it (“There are some perils from which a man must flee”), not to claim he would not be affected by it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/7 "2014-12-30T23:36:39Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > It’s actually pretty clear that he _doesn’t_ know the thing he’s talking about is the one Ring, when he comes out with the whole ‘if it lay by the highway’ claim. He knows they have something powerful, and dangerous, that used to belong to Sauron, but not what it is. > > Once he actually knows they are talking about the ring (which, of course, was thought to be utterly lost or destroyed for centuries), he basically amends his claim to being only wise enough to know he shouldn’t have anything to do with it (“There are some perils from which a man must flee”), not to claim he would not be affected by it. Facts that refute claims made in the OP will not be admitted into evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/8 "2014-12-30T23:37:14Z")
Twas hyperbole, it twas. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/9 "2014-12-30T23:41:14Z")
I was under the impression that he figured out exactly what it was Frodo had. And since Frodo was at his mercy, and he knew what Denethor’s orders would be in that situation, that he did send it on its way. The very thing nobody could do with the Silmaril. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/10 "2014-12-31T00:20:13Z")
Faramir always struck me as a man with a great deal of self-knowledge. He has seen what power does and how it corrupts and has been saddened and disgusted by it. He has a father who is a madman and a brother who has been groomed since birth for his destiny to become to become the one who restores the glory of Gondor. Pushed away by his father and brother, Faramir is content to play his role on the smaller stage and I honestly do believe he’d have walked away from the one ring with only the slightest of struggles. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/11 "2014-12-31T00:27:41Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Famamir may have exaggerated his disinterest because he thought of the desire for the Ring as related to desire for glory and power - things that did not (much) affect him, but the Ring can use other desires (for admiration, or knowledge or gardens, etc.) to its ends. That bit about gardens makes me wonder exactly what you have in mind. Are you implying that it used Sam’s desires to its ends? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/12 "2014-12-31T00:29:49Z")
I’m going to go with something much closer to Andy L’s answer. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/13 "2014-12-31T00:40:43Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I was under the impression that he figured out exactly what it was Frodo had. And since Frodo was at his mercy, and he knew what Denethor’s orders would be in that situation, that he did send it on its way. The very thing nobody could do with the Silmaril. Sam told him what it was. He didn’t work it out. I mean, how long did it take Gandalf to work out that it really was the long-lost Ring of Rings, and he’d seen it! He’s pretty adamant about not wanting to see it or know any more than necessary once he knows what it is. He certainly seems to believe he _could_ be tempted, given time- Bombadil he ain’t (thank goodness, one of him was plenty). ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/14 "2014-12-31T01:00:03Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > Sam told him what it was. He didn’t work it out. I mean, how long did it take Gandalf to work out that it really was the long-lost Ring of Rings, and he’d seen it! [Years and years](http://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/17754/when-does-gandalf-realise-that-bilbos-ring-is-the-one-ring). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/15 "2014-12-31T01:25:38Z")
The Ring would have corrupted Faramir just as surely, and just as thoroughly, as it would have any other mortal. The difference is, Faramir has enough sense to know this, and so would refuse to give it the chance to do so. Take it up “just for a little while” or “for a good cause”, or the like, and it’ll ensnare you. Refuse to even touch the thing, and there’s not much it can do. And **The Other Waldo Pepper** , the Ring certainly attempted to use Sam’s love of gardens against him. It failed… that time. But even with his quiet and humble sort of strength, even Sam would have succumbed if he’d had it for long enough, and it probably would have been through something resembling the temptation we saw. Or, perhaps, the temptation of “with this, I will have the power to save Frodo”. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/16 "2014-12-31T01:49:01Z")
Y’all are not quite there. Fatamirs role from a story point of view is to justify the continued existence of the race of men. It’s stated in the text that by chance in Faramir the blood of Numenor ran almost true. He had the strength of character to both know and resist the initial temptation of the ring. Because of that the world of men is made savable. All other men save Aragorn who are exposed to the ring are corrupted by it in one way or the other. Faramir alone in the texts proves that men are not completely broken and can inherit middle earth from the elves. Hence he HAS to make a big deal about rejecting it and keeping his promise. Without it he serves no narrative purpose. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/17 "2014-12-31T01:50:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Faramir has enough sense to know this, and so would refuse to give it the chance to do so. Take it up “just for a little while” or “for a good cause”, or the like, and it’ll ensnare you. Refuse to even touch the thing, and there’s not much it can do. > > And **The Other Waldo Pepper** , the Ring certainly attempted to use Sam’s love of gardens against him. It failed… that time. But even with his quiet and humble sort of strength, even Sam would have succumbed if he’d had it for long enough, and it probably would have been through something resembling the temptation we saw. Or, perhaps, the temptation of “with this, I will have the power to save Frodo”. That glides over the essentials a bit too fast for my taste. I mean, Sam _did_ take it up “just for a little while” – and “for a good cause” – and it _didn’t_ in fact ensnare him; he used it for a little while, for a good cause, and then handed it back to Frodo just as easily as Gandalf had handed it back to Frodo, and just as easily as Tom Bombadil had handed it back to Frodo: he saw what it offered, and, y’know, he wasn’t interested. _“I do not wish for such triumphs, Frodo son of Drogo,”_ said [del]Sam[/del] Faramir. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/18 "2014-12-31T06:14:49Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > Faramir always struck me as a man with a great deal of self-knowledge. He has seen what power does and how it corrupts and has been saddened and disgusted by it. He has a father who is a madman and a brother who has been groomed since birth for his destiny to become to become the one who restores the glory of Gondor. Pushed away by his father and brother, Faramir is content to play his role on the smaller stage and I honestly do believe he’d have walked away from the one ring with only the slightest of struggles. Denethor in the book is less mad and more despairing. Despair seems to have been a sin. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/19 "2014-12-31T07:54:28Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I maintain that guy was on the run from multiple jurisdictions for not paying child support. Seriously, he was in Middle Earth for 2000 years; he must have gotten laid occasionally. Oh, I’m sure he got _mad_ tail - but not the kind that ends in child support, if you know what I mean…_waggles eyebrows_ ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572/20 "2014-12-31T10:55:54Z")
OK, supposing Faramir sees the One Ring by the side of the road, and walks on by. Then a band of Orcs comes through, and the Orc-chieftan grabs the Ring from whichever Orc initially picks it up. After a short while, either Sauron or one of the Nine takes it from him, or he eventually supplants Sauron. How’s this a good idea, again? Faramir would have to pick it up and _try_ to resist its corruption long enough to hand it off to someone who could better resist its effects. (A Hobbit, obviously, since JRRT has pretty much said that they’re the only ones who can semi-safely handle this thing for very long.) That may have a high probability of corrupting Faramir irredeemably, but if someone else picks it up instead, doom is certain. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-faramirs-claim-that-hed-have-left-the-ring-on-the-side-of-the-road-if-he-chanced-to-find-it/708572.md?page=2)