# Was 'Firefly' really a massive rip-off of 'Cowboy Bebop?' **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-firefly-really-a-massive-rip-off-of-cowboy-bebop/298044 "2005-04-06T15:35:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-firefly-really-a-massive-rip-off-of-cowboy-bebop/298044/21 "2005-04-07T06:05:04Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > And that smugness, coupled with their rabid attacks on anything beside their favored series, is why i have avoided anime (and manga, which the wife and kids eat for breakfast) for so long. Well, I’m having a hard time thinking of any hobby I’m into where the fans aren’t completely annoying bastards. I’d have a hard time passing myself off as a genuine _otaku_, since I think about 90% of anime (just like 90% of everything) is garbage – I just can’t appreciate the slapstick humor that’s in so much of it, is the biggest obstacle for me. But if you avoid it entirely, you’re missing out on a lot of genuinely great stuff. “Cowboy Bebop” is not just the best anime, but one of the best television series ever made, of any kind. It’s just genius. (Sometimes I wonder how it got to be so popular, seeing as how it’s so genuinely good – I just usually reassure myself that most people are watching for the explosions and spaceships and boobies). (In case it’s not clear: the first part is totally serious; the part in parentheses is being sarcastic.) And for the rest: _Pom Poko_, _Pom Poko_, _Castle of Cagliostro_, _Nausicaa_, _Wings of Honnemaise_, _Spirited Away_, and _Millenium Actress_ are all great movies regardless of whether they’re anime or not. _Akira_, _Ghost in the Shell_, and _Metropolis_ have stunning animation. “Escaflowne” is a great adventure series (riding the back of an annoying “magical girl” soap opera). And “Inuyasha” and “Naruto” are guilty pleasures. > [@dropzone](#): > > Insufferable fans can turn off potential fans.Amen. And I started out as a pompous geek, long before we had any outlets over here, so I know fromwhere I speak. Well, I wrote the fanzine on being a pompous geek, so suck on that! And I hope that if you’re going to be so _presumptuous_ as to base your _entire perception_ of “Cowboy Bebop” (or, as it should properly be romanized, “Kauboi Beebappu”) from the _movie_, of all things, that you at _least_ watched a fansub of it instead of the bastardized American DVD release, and that you watched it with the original Japanese soundtrack and subtitles, or better yet, a Japanese-English dictionary on-hand. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-firefly-really-a-massive-rip-off-of-cowboy-bebop/298044/22 "2005-04-07T06:12:49Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > And for the rest: _Pom Poko_, _Pom Poko_ (One of those _Pom Poko_s is supposed to be _Porco Rosso_.) > [@Just Some Guy](#): > > Hey! Nadia and the Secret of Blue Water isn’t obscure! Everyone knows it, right? I mean its an influential show and part of the foundation of Gainax as an animation studio so it can’t be obscure. Ah, that’s it. I was actually about to type “Nadia” but I couldn’t remember the rest of the title and was getting it confused with _Laputa_. And if I can’t remember the title of something, that _must_ mean it’s obscure, right? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-firefly-really-a-massive-rip-off-of-cowboy-bebop/298044/23 "2005-04-07T14:15:18Z")
Well, in keeping with the tone of the thread, I mock you for the fact that you couldn’t recall what is clearly among the greatest series ever. (Seriously, it is a great series, hugely influential, and it does tend to fall below even fandom’s radar since it isn’t a new show.) BTW, if you like Naruto I’m kind of surprised that you don’t like more shows. Naruto is a fairly standard shonen action show (meaning “boy’s” but also in this case originating from the manga magazine Shonen Jump) and follows a lot of the same formulas. I can understand if the execution of the series happened to hook you, but if you like it I would expect you to like a lot more than you say you do. ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-firefly-really-a-massive-rip-off-of-cowboy-bebop/298044/24 "2005-04-07T15:24:51Z")
(hijack) _Sailor Moon_ is essentially a gender-flipped version of those old sentai shows. _Nadia of the Blue Water_ is heavily influenced by Jules Verne’s works, especially _20,000 Leagues Under the Sea_ (/hijack) _shrugs_ There aren’t any new ideas, just old ideas with new twists or dressed up in new settings. (Samurai in spaaaaaaaaaaace! :D) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-firefly-really-a-massive-rip-off-of-cowboy-bebop/298044/25 "2005-04-08T20:35:37Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Well, I wrote the fanzine on being a pompous geek, so suck on that! Oh yeah? I remember when the term “fanzine” was INVENTED and they were run off on MIMEOGRAPH MACHINES! YEARS before there were fanzines for crappy Japanese cartoons. > [@](#): > > …and that you watched it with the original Japanese soundtrack and subtitles I tried but one of my daughters doesn’t read that well and has enough trouble following SPOKEN dialog. (Is it fair to play the “brain-damaged kid” card this early in the game? Or is it a sign I’ve got a lousy hand, since I didn’t bother seeing the movie until the evening it was due back at the rental store and never bothered to watch it a second time in Japanese? 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-firefly-really-a-massive-rip-off-of-cowboy-bebop/298044/26 "2005-04-08T20:53:55Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > I’d always heard the opposite, and I thought “Bebop” predated “Trigun.” No, I meant that _Firefly_ ripped off _Trigun_, not that _Bebop_ ripped off _Trigun_. Either way, I don’t really see it, although _Trigun_ does have a more explicit “sci-fi Western” theme to it. (Which, really, I don’t see at all in _Bebop_, except in certain specific episodes.) ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-firefly-really-a-massive-rip-off-of-cowboy-bebop/298044/27 "2005-04-08T20:58:27Z")
I have to say mean things about Miller and SolGrundy behind their backs now, because they said all the things I wanted to say about Cowboy Bebop. Also, I have all the episodes on tape from Adult Swim. If anyone wants to see them badly enough, I might be persuaded to make copies. ---
**Author:** ![pmwgreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pmwgreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pmwgreen)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-firefly-really-a-massive-rip-off-of-cowboy-bebop/298044/28 "2005-04-08T21:33:10Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > The music was astonishing. I plan to look up more of her work and appreciate your suggestions. Yoko Kanno has done a ton of stuff, but my personal favorites, besides Bebop, are the soundtracks for Wolf’s Rain and Macross Plus. I thought Firefly was a rip-off of Kiddie Grade. Silly me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-firefly-really-a-massive-rip-off-of-cowboy-bebop/298044/29 "2005-04-08T21:55:19Z")
(continuing the hijack I started) > [@Just Some Guy](#): > > BTW, if you like Naruto I’m kind of surprised that you don’t like more shows. Naruto is a fairly standard shonen action show (meaning “boy’s” but also in this case originating from the manga magazine Shonen Jump) and follows a lot of the same formulas. I can understand if the execution of the series happened to hook you, but if you like it I would expect you to like a lot more than you say you do. Yeah, I put “Naruto” in the guilty pleasure category. It’s so obviously targeted at the “boy’s adventure” audience, and the videogame audience, but dang, ninjas are just _cool_. They can totally flip out and kill people. All the seals and special ninja techniques and secret villages and such make up for all the slapstick humor, prepubescent angst, and fight scenes that stretch out over five episodes. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-firefly-really-a-massive-rip-off-of-cowboy-bebop/298044/30 "2005-04-09T01:03:19Z")
I hadn’t headr that Narutop was already an anime, though I admit I wanted to see it. I like silly Shonen. I want to see Sandland, myself. Aside from all of that, I much preferred the dub Cowboy Bebop to the sub. The Dub felt so much more natural and the voice acting was pretty ddarned good. Plus, the voices on the original show didn’t sound that inspired to me. Trigun had a better Japanese, but after the first couple of rough episodes, the American Vash and Millie and Wolfwood and Meryl just grew so lovely. Plus, I hate subtitles. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-firefly-really-a-massive-rip-off-of-cowboy-bebop/298044/31 "2005-04-09T07:01:57Z")
> [@Pazu](#): > > Oddly, I’ve never heard about the _Firefly/Cowboy Bebop_ ripoff idea. What I remember is that when _Firefly_ first came out, people were claiming that it was a ripoff of _Outlaw Star_. I think this was mainly because both series’ had a scene in an early episode featuring— A naked young woman being smuggled, in suspended animation, in an oversized suitcase. Which could just as easily be an innocent _homage_ as it could be a complete coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-firefly-really-a-massive-rip-off-of-cowboy-bebop/298044/32 "2005-04-09T07:21:20Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > I hadn’t headr that Narutop was already an anime, though I admit I wanted to see it. I like silly Shonen. I want to see Sandland, myself. Yep, up to about 130 episodes at this point. Licensed a few weeks ago and due to start airing on Cartoon Network this fall so you won’t have that long to wait for an official version. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-firefly-really-a-massive-rip-off-of-cowboy-bebop/298044.md?page=1)