# Was George W Bush That Bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740 "2010-02-12T18:02:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/301 "2010-02-20T15:04:05Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Bush’s faith in the Iraqi people, and his courageous decision to invade will be vindicated. Look, see! The Surge, it Works: [Sunni party drops out of Iraq’s national elections](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100220/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq) Bush _is_ Vindicated! Error remains Liberal fault. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/302 "2010-02-20T15:05:40Z")
And now the deep cowardice that defines the American military insults its history, by accepting decorations for cowardly conduct that were formerly reserved to the brave. Could there be a more effective way to spit in the face of those who fought to defend the US? It has been said before plate them an inch thick in decorations and the true yellow will shine through, on and on regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Heavy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/22d042/32.png) [@Heavy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heavy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/303 "2010-02-20T15:31:57Z")
I hate the s.o.b.his great,great granpa h.w.bush,his grandpa prescott bush,his dad g.h.w.bush,and his brother jeb who is campaigning for 2012…all no good m.fers… ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/304 "2010-02-20T16:14:17Z")
> [@Heavy](#): > > his brother jeb who is campaigning for 2012 Cite? I live in Jeb Bush’s “home” state and I’ve seen nothing on this. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/305 "2010-02-20T16:20:45Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Actually, Cheney was the worst president we’ve ever had. Whatever else you might say about Bush, he was an awesome stand up comedian. Imagine staying in character as the village idiot for 8 years with no more than an occasional smirk as a wink to those in the know. Put 'em together for W. I still blame Bush. Through his tolerance, inaction, willful ignorance, lack of interest, misplaced trust, or simple laziness, he did nothing about it. In short he allowed it. Blaming Cheney is just another form of “it’s someone else’s fault”. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/306 "2010-02-20T17:43:24Z")
You quoted me slightly out of context there, **Squink**. Not a big deal, usually, but as the first post on the page, some people might see it and not the original. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/307 "2010-02-20T18:04:08Z")
Oh, sorry, no intent to tar you there, **Robot Arm** , but the search for ways to vindicate Bush really does seem to call for pretzel logic on the part of the vindicators. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/308 "2010-02-20T18:06:56Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Mix that with a bit of “it’s too soon to tell.” > > They’ve been laying the groundwork for years. If Iraq goes to hell, it’s because the Iraqi people didn’t take advantage of the opportunity to build a better society. But if things turn out okay, then Bush’s faith in the Iraqi people, and his courageous decision to invade will be vindicated. Right, I forgot that one. Actual quote from Donald Rumsfeld on looters: “In a free society, people are free to commit crimes.” But history will vindicate everything, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/309 "2010-02-23T03:28:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yeah, right. :rolleyes: Do you think the Mexicans live in caves or something? Nor does it have anything special to do with Mexico besides the name, anyway. Compare San Diego and Tijuana. See what I mean? > [@](#): > > Treating women as less than human is what you want to do. If my pointing that out offends you, too bad. And it is evil to support the murder of fetuses. Two can play at this game. > [@](#): > > No; if “abortion is murder”, all that means is that you’ve created a category of murder that should be allowed. Killing a tiny blob of flesh remains killing a blob of flesh whether you label it murder or not. > > Besides, if “saving babies” was their motivation, then they’d also be behind pre-natal care, caring for unwanted and poor children and so forth. But they aren’t, because they don’t care in the slightest about saving the lives of anyone. The anti-abortion movement opposes abortion as a method of brutalizing and oppressing women; that’s all. What about for instance the Roman Catholic Church which supports social welfare programs and is pro-life? > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > “Failed” in what way; failed to be enacted, or was enacted and failed to achieve its goals? > > Not that that distinction seems to matter to you. You give Bush credit for the surge for making it happen. You blame the Democrats for the war because they didn’t do enough to stop Bush from making it happen. I don’t blame the Dems for starting the Iraq War. But we may have dodged something worse by going to war against in Iraq in '03. Were I President Bush in '03 I wouldn’t avoid invading Iraq but send more troops and stablize it from the start. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/310 "2010-02-23T03:39:39Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Compare San Diego and Tijuana. See what I mean? No. Tijuana isn’t a collection of cave dwellings. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > And it is evil to support the murder of fetuses. Two can play at this game. Again; if killing a fetus is murder, that doesn’t make it wrong; that just means you’ve created a category of murder that is moral. I prefer to not cheapen the word “murder”. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > What about for instance the Roman Catholic Church which supports social welfare programs and is pro-life? You mean the one that lies about condoms, killing people by fooling them into exposing themselves and others to AIDS and other diseases? The same one that has supported “social programs” that were nothing more that women being pressed into slavery? The same one that covered up the molestation of children for decades? The same one that helped Nazi war criminals escape? And on, and on; they are anything but moral. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I don’t blame the Dems for starting the Iraq War. But we may have dodged something worse by going to war against in Iraq in '03. There’s absolutely no reason to believe that. Iraq was no danger to us; our invasion was an act of pure aggression and nothing more. The national equivalent of waylaying some woman, robbing, beating and raping her, and all the while lecturing her about how it’s for her own good and being offended when she doesn’t thank you for it. And staying in Iraq is like continuing to beat and rape her, under the theory if you just do it long enough she’ll get better. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/311 "2010-02-23T03:39:43Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > And it is evil to support the murder of fetuses. Two can play at this game. And you consider it murder because someone in some human has decided it is, not because of anything in the Bible about it. If some where in the Bible abortion was condemned as murder, or even as a sin in general, you might have a leg to stand on. Since it is not even mentioned, you really don’t. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I don’t blame the Dems for starting the Iraq War. But we may have dodged something worse by going to war against in Iraq in '03. Were I President Bush in '03 I wouldn’t avoid invading Iraq but send more troops and stablize it from the start. Well, we could have avoided something really nasty in Iraq, if we hadn’t invaded. But since invading we have discovered that not only did they not have any WMDs, they were not even working on them, I don’t think your idea here really flys. and we would be much better off in Afghanistan without the wasted time, money, and especially, lives that went down the drain in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/312 "2010-02-23T03:51:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No. Tijuana isn’t a collection of cave dwellings. Tijuana’s a pretty crappy place with drug wars making it bloody as Baghdad on bad days. > [@](#): > > Again; if killing a fetus is murder, that doesn’t make it wrong; that just means you’ve created a category of murder that is moral. I prefer to not cheapen the word “murder”. > > You mean the one that lies about condoms, killing people by fooling them into exposing themselves and others to AIDS and other diseases? The same one that has supported “social programs” that were nothing more that women being pressed into slavery? The same one that covered up the molestation of children for decades? The same one that helped Nazi war criminals escape? And on, and on; they are anything but moral. Their doctrine on condoms is folly but most Catholics don’t take it seriously. > [@Lok](#): > > And you consider it murder because someone in some human has decided it is, not because of anything in the Bible about it. If some where in the Bible abortion was condemned as murder, or even as a sin in general, you might have a leg to stand on. Since it is not even mentioned, you really don’t. Slavery is not condemned in the Bible yet all decent people agree it is evil. Similarly only half a century ago abortion was considered murder-we’ve deteriorated in our morals since than. > [@](#): > > Well, we could have avoided something really nasty in Iraq, if we hadn’t invaded. But since invading we have discovered that not only did they not have any WMDs, they were not even working on them, I don’t think your idea here really flys. and we would be much better off in Afghanistan without the wasted time, money, and especially, lives that went down the drain in Iraq. Maybe: it was a gamble. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/313 "2010-02-23T03:57:45Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Tijuana’s a pretty crappy place with drug wars making it bloody as Baghdad on bad days. You are trying to claim that Mexico is so bad off that it can’t do better than someone with a wire hanger in a back room, which is ridiculous. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Their doctrine on condoms is folly but most Catholics don’t take it seriously. They take it seriously enough to push it and kill people with it, which is as seriously as it needs to be taken. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Slavery is not condemned in the Bible yet all decent people agree it is evil. Similarly only half a century ago abortion was considered murder-we’ve deteriorated in our morals since than. No, we’ve improved. Outlawing abortion is an act of woman hating barbarism. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Maybe: it was a gamble. No, it was guaranteed disaster from the start.That’s exactly why it took Bush for the neocons to get their way; he was the first President stupid enough to go along with them. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/314 "2010-02-23T04:25:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You are trying to claim that Mexico is so bad off that it can’t do better than someone with a wire hanger in a back room, which is ridiculous. Compared to the US they don’t have that many professional/educated doctors nor are the women that well educated regarding sex. > [@](#): > > They take it seriously enough to push it and kill people with it, which is as seriously as it needs to be taken. “Kill people with it”. I haven’t seen His Holiness call for a crusade against the condom factories. > [@](#): > > No, we’ve improved. Outlawing abortion is an act of woman hating barbarism. Which many women supported in banning. > [@](#): > > No, it was guaranteed disaster from the start.That’s exactly why it took Bush for the neocons to get their way; he was the first President stupid enough to go along with them. The neocons compared to the paleoconservatives (ie Pat Buchanan) are far more saner and moderate. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/315 "2010-02-23T04:32:23Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Compared to the US they don’t have that many professional/educated doctors nor are the women that well educated regarding sex. And? They can still do better than a wire in a back alley. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > “Kill people with it”. I haven’t seen His Holiness call for a crusade against the condom factories. They’ve lied about condoms, convinced people not to use them, and by doing so killed people.. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Which many women supported in banning. And? > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > The neocons compared to the paleoconservatives (ie Pat Buchanan) are far more saner and moderate. No, just different flavors of evil. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/316 "2010-02-23T04:32:52Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Slavery is not condemned in the Bible yet all decent people agree it is evil. Similarly only half a century ago abortion was considered murder-we’ve deteriorated in our morals since than. You are talking murder, which is explicitly condemned in the Bible. But it is not applied to an unborn fetus at any point. They had effective abortifacients then, but no place does the Bible equate using them with murder. And the only place the Bible talks about an unborn fetus is when it says that if someone accidentally causes a premature birth or miscarriage, they should be fined, but if they cause a serious injury, they must suffer “life for life, eye for eye” etc., etc. IOW, the loss of the unborn is not considered a serious injury. Hardly equivalent to murder is it. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Maybe: it was a gamble. No, it was not a gamble. The actual intelligence at the time agreed with what we actually found, they just lied about it. Repeatedly. Every time they opened their mouths. Some of them are still doing it, apparently using the Big Lie theory as hard as they can. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/317 "2010-02-23T04:35:32Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Compared to the US they don’t have that many professional/educated doctors nor are the women that well educated regarding sex. Yeah, they have such horrible healthcare in Mexico that [Americans are flocking there](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-08-31-mexico-health-care_N.htm) to get coverage. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/318 "2010-02-23T04:35:57Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Compared to the US they don’t have that many professional/educated doctors nor are the women that well educated regarding sex. Where do you come up with such bullshit? Have you spent any time at all in this country? What exactly is your problem? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/319 "2010-02-23T05:07:27Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Where do you come up with such bullshit? Have you spent any time at all in this country? What exactly is your problem? He’s a ( supposed ) thirteen year old whose knowledge of history and politics apparently comes largely from right wing propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740/320 "2010-02-23T06:11:16Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Where do you come up with such bullshit? Have you spent any time at all in this country? What exactly is your problem? I know 3 people from Michigan who have gone to Mexico for operations.They saved a fortune and are happy with the results. For years Michiganders went to Windsor for eye surgery and hernia surgery. It was advanced over ours and far cheaper. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-george-w-bush-that-bad/528740.md?page=17)