Was George W Bush That Bad?

He screwed up a lot, how’s that?

He entered office with a budget surplus and left with a record deficit.

He cut taxes while expanding the deficit and started not one but TWO wars without raising funds to pay for them.

That economic prosperity only happened for the top 5% wealthiest or so - throughout his term wages and compensation for the middle and lower class dropped, culminating in the current Great Recession.

He CAUSED the situation in Iraq! Saddam was a bad person but no threat to us. Nor was he linked to 9/11.

With a giant “donut-hole” in the middle to kick in when the sicker recipients needed more coverage, leaving them to handle it out of pocket or choose between eating and medicine - oh yeah, great job there.

Then there was the screw up in Katrina, basically abandoning the poor and disabled of New Orleans to their own devices in a flooded city.

Post 9/11 he took the good will of nearly the entire world and turned it into animosity through his hamfisted approach to foreign affairs.

All the security BS since then that has done little or nothing to make us safe but has greatly inconvenienced millions.

He thwarted research into stem cell technology.

He imposed his own religious ideology on other nations by meddling with rational family planning.

That’s just off the top of my head.

I’d say that Bush, in terms of competency and judgement, was C-minus to D-minus at various points in his presidency. The period of time from 2000-2008 was absolutely unforgiving of amateur errors, and the results speak for themselves.

However, regardless of his actual abilities, intentions, and execution, in terms of the actual long-term effects of his presidency we may well someday regret Bush 2 more than any president to date. It remains to be seen.

What can I say? This board has long been noted for its pro-Bush sympathies. We like to think of it as a place where Bush conservatives can come and relax among friends.

I know but the thing is . . . New Orleans? I mean, how bad was that. Lets throw that in there vs. ol’ Pressie Buchanan.

Another aspect of the failure that was the Bush Administration that has not gained adequate traction in this thread was the constant fear mongering. Never asking the people to be brave or noting that the response to terrorism is to explicitly state that “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.” The failure of the Bush people to ask for a refusal to cower was despicable. Their ramping up color alerts before elections was disgusting. To say they were craven is an understatement.

This is always one of my favs from the Bush years. Ron Suskind in The New York Times Magazine:

That’s beautiful.

Even if you ignore all of his failures, he was not an inspiring, rallying figure, which I think is important for all leaders. During Katrina, he didn’t inspire us to give support to the victims. No, he scolded the handful of people who looted big-screen TVs and made them the face of Katrina, while hundreds of others were dying. After 9/11, there was no inspirational quote that the people could latch on to during such a fearful time. No, the White House message was “Come on, people. The best way to support your country is to BUY, BUY, BUY!” The same when we were sloping into the war-exacerabated recession that started in '07. No call for sacrificing anything, as our grandparents did during WWII. No, the people, if they wanted to support the military and therefore the United States, should support the ole mighty dollar. WTF? That’s why we’re in the mess we’re in right now! People putting their support behind the dollar instead of their own commonsense.

Instead of spitting in the eye of terrorists, his administration concocted ineffective fear tactics. Seriously, duct tape and plastic sheeting is supposed to do what now? Red light, green light, yellow light…I just get this memory from the movie “The Wiz” where Richard Pryor’s inept Wiz arbitrarily picks a new color every five minutes and everyone dances to it like it actually means something. I never felt safe under Bush’s watch because he didn’t give me any reason to feel that way, and Katrina sealed the deal for me. Someone said it earlier, and I’ll reiterate. The hurricane wasn’t his fault. I don’t blame him for the crappy job the Army Corps of Engineers did with the levees. And I don’t think Bush hates black people (sorry, Kayne). But his response to Katrina showed that he really didn’t have the right people mobilized to react to catastrophic events, such as a whole city being destroyed by a dirty bomb. His own reaction showed how detached he was from the situation on the ground. That was much scarier than anything the terrorists could do.

And that’s how I feel about him in general. That he was detached from EVERYTHING. I never got the feeing that he had a second-thought about invading Iraq, or that he spent any time coming up with a strategy for Afganistan. I just imagine a guy who made abrupt decisions from on high and allowed others to be called to the carpet when they failed. Say what you will about Obama, but at least we get the sense the guy is actually thinking when he says what he says and does what he does…someone willing to take a step back and see things from a different point-of-view. Maybe he does this to a fault, but I find it preferable to what I perceived from Bush’s leadership.

All the usual partisan crap, spewed forth constantly in what purports to be our “Great Debates” forum. What drek.

You cannot possibly know whether or not George W. Bush will be “teh worst Prez evah!” only a year after he has left the office. Hell, you haven’t even begun to see what confidential information he and his administration were working with when they made their decisions. Those relevations in future years could result in everything from universal condemnation to universal approval. Judging him on an overall context, against presidents for whom we have that sort of context, is simply silly.

Everyone here knows my position on these sorts of things. I’m a middle-of-the-road sort of guy. I vote both sides of the aisle, depending upon what I perceive to be the virtues of the candidates to be. I’ve voted for winning presidents and losing presidents (more than once each!), and although I’ve never voted for a losing Republican presidential candidate, I would have in 1976 if I had been just two years older at the time. So I’m not a partisan person, with some sort of agenda (oh, sorry, agendum :p) to harp on while saying this.

It must first be accepted that Presidents receive praise/blame for a lot of things neither they themselves, nor their administration (that is, the political hacks they put in charge when they become president) can truly be considered to have accomplished/failed to do. Congress, you know, passes laws, sets the budget, taxes the people, etc. Blaming President Bush for the economic meltdown of the last two years is simply ridiculous; his administration had a part in it, but so, too, did the policies established by Congress, and the Fed, and the people in power during the administration of President Clinton (hell, it actually goes all the way back to President Reagan). And while it is certainly no picnic to be living through these times for some people, it’s quite impossible to try and compare the current situation to the situation during the late-70s and early-80s, since we don’t know for sure how long this will last, we don’t know what the long-term effect will be, and we don’t even have a compete yardstick for comparison of what we DO know has happened. So pointing at the last President and screaming that this is all HIS fault, and that this is so much worse than the last economic fuck-up we suffered through is simply unbelievably childish. It’s the sort of comment I’d expect from the students in my Algebra I repeater class, who see things in exactly this sort of unnuanced, black/white way, without the ability to utilize anything approaching reason to sort things out.

(For what it is worth, having lived through both, btw, I’ll take a recession over the totally out-of-whack economic situation we lived through in the period 1978 - 1983; THAT was definitely scary, even for people who were not at the raw end of the deal) :eek:

Similarly, attempting to lay everything Katrina at President Bush’s doorstep is an egregious over-simplification. FEMA has been abysmally bad for a very, very long time. The response to Loma Prieta was a harbinger of things to come, though fortunately the number of displaced people was relatively miniscule in that situation. I lived through Loma Prieta, I saw the trailer parks first hand, I know what troubles there were with parcelling out relief; it was cocked-up four ways for Sunday. And while responses to various disasters thereafter were sometimes better, sometimes not so much, there was never a sense in my mind that FEMA had truly gotten its collective act together. Katrina was destruction on an unprecedented scale in this country. We literally had never seen anything like it. And we weren’t prepared to handle it.

Is some of that due to President Bush’s appointee? Of course it is. But it’s also due to the fact that Congress was spending much of the decade reshaping the financial structure of federal-state governmental authority and revenue sourcing. It’s also due to the fact that the officials in the state of Louisiana screwed-up big time. And, just as we learn from our earthquake experiences (ever since 1932, for example, California has required that frame houses be “J”-bolted into their foundations, which has reduced housing losses in earthquakes substantially since), or our terrorist tragedies, we will learn from Katrina. But make no mistake: whatever we learn from Katrina, if, say, New York City were to be devastated by some huge disaster, we’d have a monumental catastrophe for no other reason than the fact that we just wouldn’t have any concept of the scope of such a thing.

It is my opinion that the last president made some truly huge mistakes. I have long stated that the Iraq war was totally unnecessary. I consider use of military force for what I perceive to be the true reasons we used it a reprehensible thing to do. Socially, I am often opposed to the fundamental basis for much of what the Republican base wants done, and thus viewed much of what the Bush administration did, or wanted to do, socially with skepticism. And as a teacher, I am vociferous in my objection to much of what was done in NCLB. Other criticisms can be leveled. Nevertheless, I would never dream of trying to compare the last president to someone who’s failings we know so well as those of Buchanan, or Polk, or Jackson, or any other president from our past you care to try and vilify. Even if we had an agreed-upon yardstick for making such comparisons, we simply don’t have the needed perspective to do the measuring.

Probably a relatively bad president? Yeah, likely true (though as with many bad presidents, there were good things accomplished as well; see, e.g., Nixon). Worst evah!? Get real. :rolleyes:

No, it didn’t “just happen” on Bush’s watch, and it “was what it was” largely as a result of Bush. FEMA was all but gutted during Bush’s first term, and lets not forget that this is tied in with the creation of the royal clusterfuck that is the department of homeland security. Brownie was in charge of FEMA because the agency had been so decimated that nobody competent would have taken the job.

Wow, you told us. Withholding judgment and all that. Bush’s failings exceed those of any other President. If there was “secret information” exonerating him, the government would have declassified it as quickly as they outed Valerie Plame. Instead there is no reason to believe that the outing of Valerie Plame and the “bin Ladin determined to attack US” memo’s hiding were not standard operating procedure. They did not hesitate to destroy a multi-year, multi-billion dollar anti-proliferation effort because they thought they could score political points with it. You demand that as citizens that we withhold judgment of the historical record as it stands. We are not obliged to do so, and doing so would encourage the election of some other disengaged idiot who would do the same sort of thing because we can’t learn from our mistakes until all the records are public. That makes no sense.

I also note that under the logic proposed, the W administrations refusal to start releasing Reagan’s papers will not allow us to learn from that administration either.

I must reject your call to withhold judgment as a truly stupid suggestion.

Damn reality with its liberal bias.

Is it partisan to say that Bush got us into an unnecessary war? That he bungled the aftermath of Katrina? That terrorists caught him with his pants down? That he repeteadly flouted the rule of law? That his economic policies caused a financial crash? That he turned torture into an acceptable practice? That he himself encouraged the worst kinds of partisanship?

I didn’t hate George W. Bush in 2000. But I hated him by 2008. He earned it by doing so much harm to a country I love.

He was reelected in the middle of all that so he was an agent through much of that process.

Well, it did seem to work pretty well as a mechanism for [del]buying off[/del] compensating hurricane challenged Floridian voters in the run up to the 2004 election.

It remains a mystery as to why it’s perfectly logical to say Bush is one of the worst presidents ever, but if one is to actually say he’s the worst ever, then all of a sudden it’s time for the loony bin. Get real!

he was the first corporate president. he privatized the wars he started, funneling tax payer money to Blackwater, Bechtel, Halliburton and hundreds of others. There are more mercenaries in Afghanistan than regular soldiers.
He was stumblebum who was an embarrassment when he spoke. The rest of the world had an intense dislike of him and most of his policies. He separated the US from most of the rest of the world.
He destroyed watchdog agencies and put friendlies in charge of overseeing industries from banking to the FCC. He allowed endless mergers allowing the concentration of power to be centered in fewer and fewer hands. How did that work in banking and mortgages?
He spied on his own people and he liked it. He exacerbated the concentration of wealth into the elite ,chosen few.
He bankrupted the nation after taking over with a surplus. He gave tax cuts to companies that moved abroad.
I worry that what he accomplished, can not be undone. The future could be ugly because the Repubs are fighting all the fixes for political reasons.

Katrina was an example of big money going wrong. Bush and his type did not cause the hurricane. but gutting the money to fix up New Orleans defenses and allowing oil companies to defoliate the protected areas near the water helped exacerbate the problem. Then after the water lowered in came Blackwater and Halliburton to grab at tax dollars. This group was not going to let an opportunity like that get away . It was an example of what Naomi Klein calls "disaster capitalism’. In this case they did not cause it ,but they knew how to exploit it.

The irony is that both Bush’s supporters and his detractors would likely agree on this. They would just disagree on the reason: his supporters would see this as proof that Bush was right and the rest of the world was wrong, and the detractors would see it as proof of the reverse.

George W. Bush certainly was an easy man to dislike…and having Dick Cheney as a mentor did nothing to make him any more likeable.

When I saw him representing this country, I was embarrassed. He was a lightweight in every way possible.
I freely acknowledge that my intense dislike of the man is probably over the top.

No…I don’t think he was the worst president we’ve ever had…but he was a terrible president…and our Republic is the worse for his having lead it for eight years.
But time moves on…and what follows are the first non-negative words I’ve ever written about him anywhere:

You are right…he has been conducting himself with dignity and restraint since he left office. He has stayed out of the way.

I hope he continues to do so.

If he stuck his nose into todays politics he would get it bitten off. he has no standing to offer advice or to make critical comments. I give him credit for understanding that much. Cheney seems to be missing that gene.

I’m very surprised a poster as intelligent and enlightened as yourself would claim such a thing. The provocation was commited by the country north of the border.