Was Germany a legitimate threat to the U.S.?

Great Debates
41

To Polycarp’s “Newfoundland Invasion Stratgey”:

(sigh… cub scouts in rowboats. I live here man! And yeah, it would have been, but we would have been drunk!)

Indeed, and nearly the cause of an international affair as the US, Canada, and GB tried to decide what to do about the St Pierre question. Vichy France had been quick to establish a beachhead of its own in St Pierre et Miquelon. But remember… it ain’t very big. (Miquelon is much larger, but geography on both it and st pierre would have rendered some difficulties. Landing on cliffs are hard; so is maintaining equipment on barren sand a couple of hundred meters from the Altantic.)

I think this is reasonable… just because GB falls it doesn’t mean Canada would tuck tail and capitulate.

Je me souviens… should be Newfoundland’s motto. I do remember. kinda. Anyhow, back to the argument. If canada (and the US) had not begun to position material here in the early months of the war, I could almost agree… the defense department of Newfoundland was VERY small (and it went all the way to Whitehall); BUT here’s the crux of the matter.

Newfoundland was NOT independent, strictly speaking, after 1933… it existed in a “Commission of Government” following bankruptcy. The brits came in and formed a commission, did their study and recommended that a government be formed directly from candidates selected by the Crown. It was a puppet nation for as long as it took to get out of debt (largely incurred during WW1, but thats another thread). If Britain had fallen, this commission would have ended, leaving Newfoundland in a curious state of affairs. It had always been the commission’s intention to try to get Nfld to join Canada (there’s a conspiracy theory here too, but I’ll save that… suffice it to say, even the St Pierre affair of '41 offers some evidence to this in the records); as it turned out, in 1949 it went to a rederendum to decide the question : INdependence, Confederation w/ Canada, Join the States. March 31st was the second of two referenda; we chose Canada (thus sayeth the preacher, Joey).

ANYWAY by point being… Newfoundland was a non-entity at the moment of Britain’s falling… So don’t you think there would have been a land-grab? I find it hard to believe that the US or Canada would have settled back and just let Germany invade thru St Pierre. Rather, even as Cordell Hull considered re-taking St Pierre (before he got trumped) so too the US would have capitalized.

Regarding the rest of the scenario, yeah I think it could be done w/ Newfoundland as an advance base. No different than GB allowing for Allied victory, if you think the NA Allies won the war.

JC< you’re on the right track. The problems with St Pierre and Miquelon were ended by the Free French under DeGaulle in August 1941, if I remember right. I have a book on it home, can provide the bibliographic details on request.

Now my own theory on Nfld…
First: As per Polycarp’s idea, Germany manages to land a few battalions onto St Pierre and Miquelon in early 1941. They discover the amazing cost of liquor, an industry driven for the past decade and a half by American Prohibition. Alas, there is no bavarian lager to be had.

Next: Looking and feeling their best (hung-down, brung-down and all kinds a mean, nasty, ugly thangs) they depart for the 1.5 hour ride across the water to Newfoundland’s south coast before dawn. First contact is made 10 minutes later as they encounter numbers of small boats heading towards st pierre, 3-4 men per boat. Small landing craft? Vhat is dis? Did somevhan tip dem off? nope… just the locals perpetuating the regional stereotype, heading to St Pierre for the liquor.

Then: Ship to ship engagement: German landing craft versus unarmed dories. A few warning shots are fired. The newf’s find grenades (suspension of disbelief, people) and start flinging them toward the germans. The germans start pulling the pins, and throwing them back.

Finally: Within sight of the shore, the Germans begin to look for a landing place. Losing the rest of their lunches due to their evening activities with the locals of the French islands, and heaving on 6-7 meter swells, they are understandably weary. Landing places are hard to come by on the south coast. Finding a suitable harbour, they begin their entry maneuver and proceed full speed ahead. Newfies from the wharf begin to wave their arms in dismay, yelling something. The germans proceed! (music, Ride of the Valkryies)
Finally: Just inside the harbour, a majority of landing craft mysterious sink. The remaining Germans are quickly defeated at the hands of local hunters (Yes, b’ye, I knew he wasn’t a moose but I shot the nazzie bastard anyways.) Locals tell their children amusing stories about how they tried to warn the Germans of the “sunkers” (barely submerged rocks or reefs posing a threat to shipping, and generally only known by past knowledge).
Tongue in Cheek,
Jai Pey

42

For some perspective on Jai Pey’s portrayal of Newfoundland, read The Boat Who Wouldn’t Float by the excellent Canadian author, Farley Mowat.

43

Could Nazi Germany have seriously threatened the U.S.? Let’s start by giving Germany the best position it could plausibly have had:

Phase One: 1939-1940 On a whim, Hitler commits his ground forces to attacking the British at Dunkirk, instead of waiting for the Luftwaffe. Virtually the entire British force is wiped out or captured. Britain now scarcely has an army at all. The Luftwaffe begins it’s bombing of Britain, focusing on the British airfields and radio (and radar) towers. After an RAF counterstrike hits Germany, Hitler’s generals talk him out of shifting the bombing attacks to the largely symbolic city raids. The RAF is worn down. Finally, despite the staggering losses German paratroopers took when they invaded Malta, Hitler approves an aerial invasion of Britain. Churchill’s boast of fighting on the beaches, the cities, etc. is put to the test, but by a close margin, Britain is either beaten or sues for peace.

Phase Two: 1940-1941 German forces invade the Soviet Union in the summer of 1941. A stunned Stalin sits in shock and indecision for the first few critical days. Then Hitler’s ambassadors go to Stalin with a peace deal: The USSR cedes the Ukraine, Byelorussia and the Baltics to Germany. A panicked Stalin jumps at the offer. Then he spends the next three or four years killing yet more of his own officers and party members. The Soviet Union is neutralized as a threat to Germany.

Phase Three: 1941-1944 Let’s assume that Churchill did not establish a government in exile in Canada. Roosevelt rails against the Nazis, but with the war in Europe over and Germany victorious, there’s little he can do. Fascist Spain, freed of any threat from Britain, formally joins the Axis and helps Italy suppress resistance in the Mediterranian. Britain is allowed to keep it’s colonial empire but kowtows to German demands. For the first time in it’s history, Germany begins building an Atlantic fleet based in occupied France. Although primarily composed of battleships, it does have a few aircraft carriers taken from Britain. In the United States, experiments begin on confirming that a self-sustaining nuclear reaction can be created. Seeing America’s handsitting on the war in Europe, Japan launches expands it’s colonial empire in Asia. Germany pressures Britain and France into ceding their far east possessions.

Phase Four: 1944-1946 Roosevelt is defeated in the presidential elections by an avowadly isolationist Republican candidate. A month later, war breaks out again between Germany and the Soviet Union. (Exactly how doesn’t matter). A much-better prepared and seasoned German army makes deep inroads into Russia. A lame duck and ailing Roosevelt can only offer token aid too little and too late. The Red Army is pushed east of the Urals, and degenerates into a guerilla force. Germany occupies all of Russia proper. Atomic research continues in the US, but is not receiving the massive funding necessary for a crash program. Japan opens a second front in Siberia and occupies the Pacific coast of Asia from the Bering strait to Indonesia.

Now, at this point, is an attack on America imminent? Depends largely on how crazy Hitler has grown. If he’s smart, he’ll consolidate his holdings and wait to build up his air and naval forces. A big if is whether Japan is tempted to launch an attack on the US in the Pacific. The U.S. could probably still beat Japan and Germany combined, but it would be a LOT harder. We’d probably see Hawaii taken, the West Coast bombed, and naval action in the North Atlantic as Germany tries to take Iceland and Greenland. Maybe some air raids or commando strikes on the East coast. The US would have a decisive lead in atomic research, and around 1948 would start nuking the Axis forces back across the oceans.

Overall conclusion: Axis forces never launch invasion of continental US. US either wins alternate WWII after heavy losses, or begins anti-Fascist “cold war”.

44

Interesting idea - especially the last. An anti-fascist cold war. I think it is possible, as the cold war wasn’t so much about philosophy, but a good old fashioned us vs them.

Imagine the anti-fascist American propaganda machine, extlling American Labor as a bullwark against heartless militarism. Marxist professors retain their posts well into the current era…

There is another option to all this - America making deals with Germany. There was a lot of pro-German sentiment here. Hitler wanted the “Aryan” nations of America and England to be part of his club, instead of those Italians, Spanish and Japanese who hardly fit in with his grand racial vision.

If Japan had not attacked Pearl Harbor, and if Germany had found success previously with it’s attempts to seduce the English aristocracy, and Americans like Lindberg. The picture may not have been clear cut.

We seemed to owe some dept to the French, but the bombing of England really got us. So if England had acquiesced to some sort of passive alliance with Germany, we would probably have been able to sit it out. Assuming Hitler could keep the Japanese on a leash.

I can imagine a scary fascist world with Japan dominating Asia, Germany moving on to domination of South America, with our permission (let em do the dirty work and pay us a commission). Possibly forcing China and the Soviets in bed together.

45

The Axis Powers were a threat to America. Duh. Otherwise we wouldn’t have gotten involved. And the war in the Pacific could have gone either way at the beginning. If our aircraft carriers were in port at Pearl Harbor (as the Japanese believed) most of our fleet would have been destroyed. This was the goal of the whole raid. If this had happened, Japan has free reign over the Pacific for at least a year, probably more. We got lucky again at Midway. We lose there, and the war becomes much longer. Once we did win there, tho, it becomes just a matter of time before we defeat Japan. The European Theater is a little trickier. But it is fair to say that if Hitler had played his cards a little bit smarter, we might all be typing in German right now.

It’s not how you pick your nose, it’s where you put the boogers

46

Sake,

Surpise wasn’t important? So I guess the world saw Blitzkrieg comming a mile away.

The Peyote Coyote,

“1.) Not destroying the British Army at Dunkirk”

Hitler’s tanks made a B-line for Normandy and Flanders. They were running out of gas when they got there. A couple of mechanized divisions where backing them up, but everyone else was just two footsteps out of the vaterland. The world was shocked (including the German generals) at the effectiveness of a new kind of war. Hitler didn’t want to press his luck.
“2.)…The lack of a big-enough fleet … was the reason Germany’s chances of invading England in 1940 were slim.”

Whatever. WW II was won by air power. In 1939 Germany was the only air power. When the American’s finally did invade Normandy they made damn sure the only planes in the air were friendly.
“3.) Ordering the invasion of Norway when it was no longer necessary…the British were able to sink or damage a large number of German ships…”

The idea was to take Europe. Norway is in Europe. You act like Hilter knew what he’d loose if he attacked Norway. It’s just bad luck loosing that many ship’s
“4.) His handling of the Battle of Britain,”

Yeah, it was a bad move. Still, mass bombing entire cities on a grand scale was new stuff. The German’s were hoping it would make them submit, they were wrong. But they didn’t do it for “shits and giggles”.
“5.) Not destroying American and British planes operating out of or around Malta. These planes destroyed a significant amount of materiel destined for Rommel in North Africa.”

What’s in North Africa? If it weren’t for Italies pathetic “conquest” of Libya I doubt Germany would have bothered.
“6.)… Had the Germans been able to take this country, the Middle East oilfields would have been wide open and they would have been able to open a second front against Russia.”

Baku is closer than Mecca.
“7.) On a related note, I believe some historians have criticized the Axis military for not being more aggressive in Africa during the very early part of the war.”

Italy couldn’t have, and Germany shouldn’t have. North Africa was Italies show and they botched it. I don’t see how it’s Hitler’s fault.
“8.) Postponing the invasion of Russia just to take out Yugoslavia. Hitler learned what Napolean learned: Old Man Winter always fights on the side of Holy Mother Russia.”

Ok, I’ll give you this one.
“9.) Declaring war on Russia while Britain was still an active force.”

Britain’s ass was on the ropes, and Russia was looking juicy.
“10.) Honoring the treaty with Japan and declaring war on the U.S. after Pearl Harbor.”

Yeah, I said it before…bad move.
“11.) Ignoring Rommel’s advice on how to respond to the June 1944 Normandy invasion…better, more organized defense.”

America had the airforce and if America also had Cherbourg no defense would have saved Germany.
“12.) The battle of Stalingrad. This defeat, coupled with the British victory at El Alamein and the American victory at Midway, effectively sealed the Axis’ fate.”

How was Midway Hitler’s fault? Who cares about North Africa? And what is between Stalingrad and Berlin other than a whole lot of nothing. I think Germany was going to loose the Eastern front before Stalingrad and
Hitler knew it and didn’t like it.

Ok, he wasn’t the best general on Earth, but you haven’t given any evidence that says he’s worse than average.

47

[detour]My dad claims that, after the war, it became known - though not too well known, I guess - that Lindbergh was actually on a civilian spy mission for the U.S. when he made most of the statements that sounded so Nazi-friendly. In return for the press opportunity his visit and comments afforded, Hitler and Goering fell all over themselves to show Lindbergh secret air force research projects, which he then reported to our government (that was the whole point).

So how about it? Did Lindbergh have a long pre-war love affair with Nazism (which didn’t outweigh his love of country, so that when the gov. came calling he was willing to help)? Or is it plausible that most of what is held against him was actually something else in disguise?

My dad also claims that Lindbergh flew combat missions in the Pacific as a civilian. I don’t know if that’s true, either, and if it is it doesn’t have much bearing on his feelings about Nazism unless he fought “Japs” because he couldn’t bear to shoot Germans, or unless the U.S. didn’t want him treated as a spy.[/detour]

48

Nazi Germany never had a chance against the U.S. The difference in productive capability was astounding. The U.S. went through the entire war with its economy growing every year, someone no other combatant could manage. The U.S. had only committed half as many resources to the war effort as had Germany, and yet the U.S. production of tanks in 1942 alone was greater than the sum total of all German tanks built since tanks were invented in WWI. Even so, the U.S. was committing a fair amount of its wartime resources to new factory production, meaning that it could have produced even more weapons per year had the war continued. Germany, on the other hand, committed all its resources into construction of weaponry, and was already at its production peak when the U.S. entered the war.

The U.S. was simply a mighty arsenal that would have swamped her enemies. Had the war continued until 1947-1948, the U.S. weapons inventory would likely have been at least ten times greater than the combined forces of her enemies.

That said, if Hitler had managed to take Europe, and somehow negotiate a peace, then the U.S. would almost certainly have been in big trouble within 10-15 years, as the population is highly isolationist and wouldn’t stand for wartime production rates in peacetime. The U.S. has a history of building massive armies, fighting a war, then dismantling them. It probably would have done it again.

49

Lindberg did fly some sorties in the Pacific; he may have gotten a kill, but I’m not sure about that.

I think the “spy” business is a desperate attempt to wash some of the Nazi crap off his image. Lindberg was always leery of the attention of the mobs that hailed him. After his child was kidnapped and murdered, he was totally repulsed by the media frenzy that surrounded him, here. In Germany, he found a society that was more controlled and that appeared to worship the “superior” type person, and he embraced it.

I do not think that Lindberg was ever disloyal to the U.S. (Embracing Fascism was simply an exercise in his Constitutionally guaranteed rights of association and speech–just as people who flirted with Communism had that right, regardless of Joe McCarthy.)

On the other hand, Anne Morrow Lindberg has been quite candid in the sorrow she felt at his political choices, (without ever claiming that he was a double agent), so I suspect that he really did admire the Nazi ideals. Once the war began (after some reluctance by the military to associate with an outspoken pro-Nazi sympathizer), he was allowed to offer his services in helping the war effort.

Tom~

50

Occam wants to know, “What’s in North Africa?”

Position. If your armies occupy both the north and south shores of the Mediterranean, any other army would be fools to try to invade Europe via Italy. That’s why Patton was sent to attack Rommel in North Africa before he was sent to Sicily and Italy.

All of this speculation reminds me of the movie and novel Fatherland that speculated on a world in which Hitler had won. In it, it was Joseph P. Kennedy who persuaded FDR not to go to Europe. Without the USA, Hitler took Europe and was content with that. Joseph Kennedy is elected President in the 60’s. Hitler lives into his 80’s, when an SS officer investigating the murder of a Nazi war hero learns of the Holocaust and gets the info to an American journalist just as Hitler is about to allow foreign visitors for the first time since the war.

CAVEAT: I’ve only seen the HBO film, I did not read Fatherland. If I got any details wrong, I apologize. It was a good made-for-cable movie, though.

>< DARWIN >
__L___L

51

Occam:
2) WW2 was not won by air power; it was won by masses of ground troops occupying hostile territory. Despite Allied strategic bombing, German production actually increased up until late 1944, when the Allies began occupying large segments of Nazi territory. True, the Germans invaded Crete with paratroopers, but taking out Britain without paratroopers would have been much, much harder. Germany needed a navy to take out Britain.

3.) If you will read some detailed histories of WW2, you will find that Germany had some solid military reasons to attack Norway. After the USSR defeated Finland, those reasons vanished, and it WAS stupid to commit resources to an attack on Norway when you had to deal with the UK and France, two much more powerful countries. Had Hitler conquered Britain, Germany could have subdued Norway at its leisure.

4.) I never said German resorted to mass bombing for “shits and giggles.” It was still a bad move, and it appears to me that it was motivated more by Goering’s desire to save face than for any legitimate military reasons.

5-6.) I believe jab1 addressed these points adequately. Read “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” – Churchill appeared to think Britain’s goose was cooked if Egypt fell.

9.) Russia may have looked juicy, but good strategy dictated finishing off Britain first. As Shirer noted in TRAFOTTR, Germany went from fighting one of the three largest non-German industrial countries to fighting all of them within six months. Not smart.

11.) Even with the Air Force, the Allies still just barely took the French beaches. Talk to some of the vets who were there. A better organized defense would have probably thrown the Allies back into the sea.

12.) I never blamed Hitler for the Japanese loss at Midway; however, the triumvirate of Allied victories I cited is considered by most historians to be the turning point of the war. Hitler was certainly to be blamed for some of the errors commmitted during the Stalingrad campaign, and his maniacal insistence on retaining every inch of conquered ground cost Germany dearly (thank God).

I merely said Hitler was not a military genius. He was not stupid, and, as I noted in another post, he did recognize the importance of tanks well before many generals, including some American brass hats.

The Coyote gnaws …
but he does not swallow.

52

jab1,

Would you have commited the best tank general in the war and some of the most seasoned soliders to some run-n’-gun in the Sahara? Rommel could have taken Moscow, or kept Stalingrad. Or prevented the Italy invasion. The German’s were long on the run before the Italy invasion. If some thought was put into it the soft underbelly could’ve been as dangerous as Normandy.
The Peyote Coyote,
“2) WW2 was not won by air power; it was won by masses of ground troops occupying hostile territory.”

Please. Iwo Jima, Midway, Guam, Malta…add all the ‘territory’ up and you’d get maybe two football fields worth of terra firma. They were worth dying for because you can put airplanes on them. One aircraft carrier was worth 5 battleships.

“Despite Allied strategic bombing, German production actually increased…”

I’m not talking about stragetic bombing. Tactical bombing was where it’s at. Even with radar the English were loosing until the Germans stopped attacking their airfields.
“Had Hitler conquered Britain, Germany could have subdued Norway at its leisure.”

Alright, but like I said, how was Hitler to know it would go so badly for him. Norway was used/or was to be used for bases for bombing runs on England.
“…it appears to me that it was motivated more by Goering’s desire to save face than for any legitimate military reasons.”

You might be right. But this was still cutting edge stuff. They had reason to believe that a massive bombing campaign could destroy London. And if it would destroy London there is reason to believe it would really help the war effort for Germany.
“9.) Russia may have looked juicy, but good strategy dictated finishing off Britain first.”

America saved Britain. America was the wildcard then that made this a bad move for Hitler. If America wouldn’t have entered the
war and not taken part in the Lend-Lease Act do you dispute the destruction of England?
“11.) Even with the Air Force, the Allies still just barely took the French beaches.”

All the more reason to keep them at the beaches at all cost. Instead of moving back the German’s to reform.
“Allied victories I cited is considered by most historians to be the turning point of the war.”

I thought the topic of discussion was the competence of Hitler.
“Hitler was certainly to be blamed for some of the errors commmitted during the Stalingrad campaign…”

By 1944 the Russian’s had gotten their shit together. Veteran Tank comanders were comming from Siberia, the T 34 was in mass production, the factories in the Ural mountains where in operation, German supply lines were long and in hostile territory, and winter was setting in to a still unprepared German army. It was over before Stalingrad.

“I merely said Hitler was not a military genius. He was not stupid…”

Then what are we arguing about?

53

"2) Please, yourself, Occam. France, Italy, Northern Africa, Poland, the Balkans, Greece, and, of course, Germany itself were taken with armies, not airplanes, and each country occupied segments of ground considerably larger than two football fields.

“Even with radar the English were loosing until the Germans stopped attacking their airfields.” Yes, I believe I said this in an earlier post.

“America saved Britain. America was the wildcard then that made this a bad move for Hitler.” Sorry, but America entered the war AFTER Germany invaded Russia.

" All the more reason to keep them at the beaches at all cost. Instead of moving back the German’s to reform." Someday, some military expert needs to explain to you the considerable difference between organizing an attack according to military principles, and simply throwing your troops at the enemy. Again, it was Rommel who wanted to move back the German troops out of range of the Allied battleships, not amateur historians.

Read some history books, Occam. Stalingrad was fought in the summer of 1942, well before the other incidents you cited.

The Coyote gnaws …
but he does not swallow.

54

The Peyote Coyote,

“2)France, Italy, Northern Africa, Poland, the Balkans, Greece, and, of course, Germany itself were taken with armies, not airplanes, and each country occupied segments of ground considerably larger than two football fields.”

Alright, name the mass of soil Japan lost.
All those countries you mentioned didn’t contribute much to the war effort for Germany. Damn near all production of German arms was IN Germany. No soldiers came from those countries, very little weapons, few raw materials. Airplanes on the other hand are a tactical weapon that changed the course of the war. I agree planes didn’t win it all by themselves, but tell me one country that was taken without the vital use of air support.
“Sorry, but America entered the war AFTER Germany invaded Russia.”

That’s my point. Had America entered the war and started sending supplies to England in 1939 Hitler would have waited.
“Again, it was Rommel who wanted to move back the German troops out of range of the Allied battleships, not amateur historians.”

I am not the only one to think the German fight is best left on the beaches. As for just throwing your men into the fray, that’s what the Allies were doing at Normandy. If the German’s did that in return they could have the advantage of cover, superior firepower, support, and time to reenforce their line. Meanwhile American’s are bleeding in the sand.
“Stalingrad was fought in the summer of 1942”

Damn textbook, sorry.

55

If you recall, Rommel was not actually in the Sahara when Patton was there. (I don’t recall where Rommel was at the time, but he wasn’t in Africa.) You’ll remember how disappointed Patton was when he learned he never faced Rommel himself. So someone must’ve thought Rommel was more useful somewhere else.

As to whether or not Nazi Germany was a legitimate threat to the U.S., I’d say they were IF they had made atomic bombs AND had perfected long-range missiles and/or bombers to carry them AND if Hitler had not been so greedy and ambitious, trying to take all of Europe in just a few years. “Slow and steady wins the race, son,” said Aesop. They had overreached, but atomic bombs would’ve compensated for that.

One should consider how far the Nazis’ atomic experiments were set back by a little Norwegian commando raid on a boat that was carrying virtually all of the Nazis’ supply of heavy water to a base in Norway. Some say the sinking of that boat was what enabled the Manhattan Project to succeed first. When I first heard of that stunt, I thought, “That would make a cool movie!” But they’d probably cast Ah-nold in it.

>< DARWIN >
__L___L

56

Addendum to my above posting: There is a book about this raid and other efforts by the Norwegians and British on the Nazis’ atomic experiments entitled Blood and Water: Sabotaging Hitler’s Bomb by Dan Kurzman. I have NOT read this book myself, but it did get some good reviews.

>< DARWIN >
__L___L

57

Hitler did not make a mistake in invading Norway. He needed Norway to use as an air base for attacking Britain from the north. Considering that it wasn’t too tough, I don’t see how it was a mistake. One mistake that hasn’t been brought up yet is the Holocaust. Hitler exterminated many of his own people at his detriment, and to what end? Not to mention all the resources that were spent on carrying out his mad, mad Final Solution. (I sure hope no one is going to challenge me on the occurence if the Holocaust. From what I have seen so far, we are all reasonable people. And there’s a thread for this anyway.)

-Dave

It’s not how you pick your nose, it’s where you put the boogers

58

jab1:

Most of the opinions I’ve seen say that the heavy water experiments were not going to get Hitler the Bomb earlier than the 1950’s, and may have been a dead end, entirely. (That does not diminish the efforts and sacrifices of the Norwegians who, along with London, did not know that the route to nuclear weapons did not lead through heavy water.)

(The movie starred Kirk Douglas.)

Tom~

59

Occam, look at a book sometime and see how many millions of slave laborers came from those countries. I also suggest you consider how much oil the Germans obtained from Rumania. You also make the statement that most German resources came from Germany – a country that did not cave in from air power, but surrendered when armies besieged its major cities.

The ghost of Curtis LeMay may arise from its grave, but air power has not won a major war. As an example, I cite Vietnam where the Americans had an overwhelming air superiority.

Furthermore, Yugoslavia liberated itself from the Germans with only a minimum of support from the Allies. And the Yugoslavs did not have much of an air force, nor did the Allies give them much, if any, air support.

You are entitled to your opinion about the beaches of Normandy, Occam, but how many armies have you commanded? Pulling back the troops was Rommel’s ideas. I think he proved that he knew what he was doing.

The major reason the Norwegian invasion was planned, BigDaddyD, was to protect the iron supplies coming in from Sweden. Hitler and other Nazis were afraid these would be intercepted should Britain and French intervene in the Finland-USSR war. The Nazis might have wanted to use Norway as a bombing base (and if I recall my maps correctly, most English industrial centers were in mid- and south England), but protection of the iron was the major reason.
As I noted in the original post on this, German casualities were relatively light (largely due to the incompetence of British and Norwegian commanders), but the German navy took a helluva beating. After that fiasco, the chances of invading England plummeted to practically nil.

60

I thought Germany’s invasion of Norway was to prevent the British from doing it first and gaining a stage for bomb runs on cities in northern Germany.

Elmer J. Fudd,
Millionaire.
I own a mansion and a yacht.