# Was Goliath the underdog? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 9, 2007, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319 "2007-01-09T18:17:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/21 "2007-01-10T21:24:25Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] What did god have again? 😉 -XT [/QUOTE] The writers. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/22 "2007-01-10T21:35:58Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] What did god have again? [/QUOTE] A spaceship? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/23 "2007-01-10T21:36:05Z")
Don’t you people watch TV? Goliath was the underdog because Xena was there and she made the whole thing possible. (of course later in the series she was Caesars lover, that girl really got around the timeline!) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/24 "2007-01-10T21:56:15Z")
Having thrown many stones with a sling as a lad, I can tell you that it’s really hard to aim your throws in anything more than a general way. Rocks tend not to be prefectly round. When thrown from a sling, they catch wind and curve in unexpected ways. So the shot to the forehead was pretty lucky. Given the unpredictability of stone trajectories, I’d still call David a heavy underdog. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/25 "2007-01-10T22:09:43Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Having thrown many stones with a sling as a lad, I can tell you that it’s really hard to aim your throws in anything more than a general way. Rocks tend not to be prefectly round. When thrown from a sling, they catch wind and curve in unexpected ways. So the shot to the forehead was pretty lucky. Given the unpredictability of stone trajectories, I’d still call David a heavy underdog. [/QUOTE] While this is true, if you read the Biblical account two things are clear: 1. David boasts to Saul about his previous expertise with the weapon (so we can assume he’s a real expert); and 2. David carefully selects “five smooth stones” prior to the battle - presumably, the most round he can find, and was prepared for at least five shots … ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/26 "2007-01-10T22:15:35Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Breakin’ 2: Electric Slew-galoo. [/QUOTE] ::snort ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/27 "2007-01-10T22:17:19Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] A spaceship? [/QUOTE] Naw. 🙂 He had a boy shepard with a stone and a leather sling (+2 to hit giants, +4 moral bonus from the smell, him being a shepard and all). I’ll take the Duke with his 6 Guns of Limitless Ammo and his hat of Never Miss with a Hand Gun (+20 to hit in a vital spot regardless of the angle of the shot, no negative bonus regardless of the conditions its fired from, etc), along with his Tireless Horse That Can Run All Day. -XT ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/28 "2007-01-10T22:34:25Z")
Goliath couldn’t be the underdog. Goliath was a Great Dane! And he was almost as tall as Davey! So, he had to be the overdog. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/29 "2007-01-11T13:51:25Z")
Joseph Heller wrote a life of David - it was called ‘God Knows’ It adds little to the sling debate, apart from saying that for a bored shepherd with plenty of time to practise, zapping Goliath was like shelling peas. But it is a good read - I strongly recomend it. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/30 "2007-01-11T21:46:54Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] Joseph Heller wrote a life of David - it was called ‘God Knows’ It adds little to the sling debate, apart from saying that for a bored shepherd with plenty of time to practise, zapping Goliath was like shelling peas. But it is a good read - I strongly recomend it. [/QUOTE] But only for those already on a Hell-bound train. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/31 "2007-01-11T21:49:36Z")
So Goliath, David and Rocky-Balboa-in-his-prime, all in a three way- who would have won? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/32 "2007-01-11T21:57:49Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] So Goliath, David and Rocky-Balboa-in-his-prime, all in a three way- who would have won? [/QUOTE] How does one win a three…oh you meant a fight. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/33 "2007-01-12T11:40:46Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] But only for those already on a Hell-bound train. [/QUOTE] Oh, I see, Heller’s last book, I did not ‘catch’ the amusing reference to that park. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/34 "2007-01-12T11:59:54Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] The King James version is ambiguous: 1 Samuel 17:49 And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth. 50:So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and **slew** him; but there was no sword in the hand of David. 51:Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and **slew** him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled. Goliath got slewed twice, it seems. Breakin’ 2: Electric Slew-galoo. [/QUOTE] It gets worse. Goliath was also slain by someone named Elhanan of Bethlehem, who in a different passage is supposed to have picked off Goliath’s brother Lahmi. (Neither Elhanan nor Lahmi get any other mentions than these.) Flippin’ giant had more lives than a video game character with cheat codes! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/35 "2007-01-12T12:29:03Z")
[QUOTE=Knorf] [QUOTE=Can Handle the Truth] Wrong. An agile teenage boy would have been able to evade the armored giant’s attacks almost indefinately. He also would have been able to dodge Goliath’s javelins and even throw them back. Goliath would have become exhausted long before David. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] There may be a snippet of truth in CCTH’s post, see the [wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_and_goliath#Medical_speculation) again for health problems people with [gigantism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism) suffer. People taller than average aren’t necessarily stronger than average. [QUOTE=Cervaise] A spaceship? [/QUOTE] [Shatner] What does god need with a spaceship? [/Shatner] ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/36 "2007-01-12T12:48:30Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] There may be a snippet of truth in CCTH’s post, see the [wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_and_goliath#Medical_speculation) again for health problems people with [gigantism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism) suffer. People taller than average aren’t necessarily stronger than average. Assuming a minor degree of accuracy, the Philistines would have considered Goliath a pretty mean piece of work. - well it kind of figures, you don’t stick up a loser as your ‘champion’ The guy was probably great in a melee, preferably in some sort of barroom brawl. A pygmy with a curare tipped dart from a blow pipe could have had him. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Joe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@Evil\_Joe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Joe)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319/37 "2007-01-12T13:20:52Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] There may be a snippet of truth in CCTH’s post, see the [wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_and_goliath#Medical_speculation) again for health problems people with [gigantism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantism) suffer. People taller than average aren’t necessarily stronger than average. [Shatner] What does god need with a spaceship? [/Shatner] [/QUOTE] I was going to mention this too. I saw on discovery channel ( I think it was ) that his giantism might have made him very vulnerable to a head bump. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-goliath-the-underdog/387319.md?page=1)