When reading quite a bit of SF from the sixties and seventies recently I noticed that “sexually open cultures” was short hand for hot, barely legal girls throwing themselves at frumpy middle aged men. Yeah, way to be subtle there, guys.
Certainly he may have drawn incorrect conclusions from his visit to Russia (and to other places) - I’m just noting that his change of opinions about Russia seems to have occurred around the time he visited there.
No, *We the Living *was by Ayn Rand. Heinlein’s book is For Us, the Living.
Yes, you’re right. My apologies to Mr. Heinlein for screwing up the title of his book an associating him with that dreck.
Heinlein primarily advocates multiple marriages, true, but (e.g.) when Manuel and Wyoming (? on the names) are first hiding out in the hotel room, their conversation indicates that they’re okay with open marriages as well.
Anyhoo, I was less concerned with the specific form of Heinlein’s polyamory fixation than with the general issue of he’d experienced it at all.
I’m also currently reading The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. I have definitely raised my eyebrows a few times at Mannie’s multiple marriage. Maybe I don’t fully understand it yet… But do the much older and much younger spouses have sex?
Sort of. The really old guy in Mannie’s marriage gets the “ceremonial first night with the bride,” but being something like 800 years old, would prefer to take a nap, than get some nookie. IIRC, there’s no spouses in the marriage who’re terribly young. They might be a bit below the age of 18, but I don’t think you have a 9 year old getting hitched.
It’s not explicit either way. We do know that Mannie regularly (when sleeping at home) spends the night with his senior wife, and we know that his senior wife is older than he is (he mentions that he wishes he knew her when she was young because she was a bit wild then, and also that any senior wife is by definition the oldest wife in the marriage). We don’t explicitly know that they’re having sex, but it’s implied.
Its implied that they do. The custom in the marriage they had in the book is that the senior husband or wife spent the first night with new arrivals, which if I recall correctly, they were ignoring for the marriage that took place in the book since there was a young lovebird thing going on.
Imo, I think Heinlein was just writing about something that he felt we should aspire to, not something that most people could make work now, due to upbringing and whatnot.
I think that Heinlein was writing about something that he wanted (to have sex with a bunch of young women) but knew that he had no chance of getting.
This point is much more explicit in *Stranger in a Stange Land *where polyamory and a complete lack of jealousy are achieved by Mike’s “water brothers” (or most of them) only when they have progressed in studying Martian language and concepts.
I’ve never seen chapter and verse on Heinlein’s supposed open marriage(s) although it seems to be an accepted truth - I can’t tell if the belief is based on the knowledge of people who knew them (that nice couple down the road: Bob & Eleanor or Bob & Leslyn or Bob & Ginny) at the time or some sort of retrospective reading of his fiction.
If it is the latter it is a mighty big leap to assume he had personal knowledge of the topic. As already pointed out he did not have personal knowledge of piloting a space ship or planning a revolution (or for that matter raising children!) but it did not stop him writing extensively and convincingly about them.
I heard the editor David Hartwell talk about a new biography of Heinlein which is coming out sometime soon which has specific information about the openness of Heinlein’s marriage to Leslyn.
Interesting and I will be looking out for it but according to Bill Patterson, the author, on NitroSyncretic, Hartwell is editting it pretty heavily.
Ah, the things one finds when they’re looking for something else. Anyway, I’m bumping this because Heinlein’s “For Us, the Living” might be an incredibly boring read, but it did predict people making a living off of things like YouTube by nearly a century.
Also, if you dig around in the details about the time that RAH and L. Ron Hubbard were living with Jack Parson (the guy who sorta founded JPL), it’s pretty clear that RAH and LRH got their freak on with one another. RAH didn’t seem to have a problem with it, LRH clearly did.
Boy, you are just a barrel of laughs with your bumping old threads.
Kinda like you found some free time and don’t know what to do with it.
@Tuckerfan, Please see the warning issued here: