# was Hitler a Christian? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2013, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455 "2013-01-08T06:17:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/21 "2013-01-09T03:29:41Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Hitler met the requirements to be called a Christian, which is simply for him to refer to himself as one. In Mein Kampf, Hitler wrote: “I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord..” What Hitler **said** he believed and what he **did** believe are two different things. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/22 "2013-01-09T03:31:04Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#): > > Really? Jesus would have approved of Hitler’s behavior? How so? Well, not usually. But on the last day of his life, in some part of his mind, he was probably thinking it . . . 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/23 "2013-01-09T13:08:27Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Aren’t those specific names proprietary to other religions than Christianity? Or was it a genteel way of avoiding saying the unpleasant name of the place of perdition? > > I always loved the way Dante swiped Hades, Tartarus, Styx, etc. from Greek mythology, but I don’t think any modern theologians take it seriously. In a way, it’s a pity. Dante’s vision was remarkably rich and vivid. Hades was the Greek word used in the Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures where the Hebrew “Sheol” appeared, Gehenna was a Greco-Hebrew transliteration for the burning garbage dump outside Jerusalem & used in Rabbinic writings for the Punishing Aspect of the World to Come. Both were used by Jesus in the Gospels. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/24 "2013-01-09T13:45:39Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#): > > Really? Jesus would have approved of Hitler’s behavior? How so? From my reading of the Gospels, Jesus would have despised Hitler, but Jesus didn’t have much say in how Christianity developed. IMO Paul directly contradicted Jesus on observing the Mosaic Law, and it went downhill from there. There are hundreds of denominations of Christianity, and they can’t agree on even the most basic tenets, like whether good deeds will influence your chances of going to heaven. Once you pick a denomination, your Christian-ness is a function of how closely you follow that denomination’s interpretation of the Bible, which may be very different from someone else’s. Most Germans are either Catholic or Lutheran, and both have a rich tradition of hating Jews. Everybody knows about the Inquistions and Crusades; rather fewer know about the rabid anti-Semitism of Martin Luther. Here’s a small [sample](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Luther_on_Jews.html): " I shall give you my sincere advice: First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly and I myself was unaware of it will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know. Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God. Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted)" ---
**Author:** ![Hottius\_Maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hottius\_Maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hottius_Maximus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/25 "2013-01-10T03:08:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, not usually. But on the last day of his life, in some part of his mind, he was probably thinking it . . . 😉 You mean when Jesus said “Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do?” correct? ---
**Author:** ![Hottius\_Maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hottius\_Maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hottius_Maximus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/26 "2013-01-10T03:14:30Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > From my reading of the Gospels, Jesus would have despised Hitler, but Jesus didn’t have much say in how Christianity developed. IMO Paul directly contradicted Jesus on observing the Mosaic Law, and it went downhill from there. > > There are hundreds of denominations of Christianity, and they can’t agree on even the most basic tenets, like whether good deeds will influence your chances of going to heaven. Once you pick a denomination, your Christian-ness is a function of how closely you follow that denomination’s interpretation of the Bible, which may be very different from someone else’s. > > Most Germans are either Catholic or Lutheran, and both have a rich tradition of hating Jews. Everybody knows about the Inquistions and Crusades; rather fewer know about the rabid anti-Semitism of Martin Luther. Here’s a small [sample](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Luther_on_Jews.html): > > " I shall give you my sincere advice: > > First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly and I myself was unaware of it will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know. > > Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God. > > Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted)" Not to get too inflammatory here, but dare I say it, some of the quotes from Martin Luther would very easily be approved by the some in the American Left when discussing Palestine today, and some on the American extreme right who have nothing good to say about the Jews to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/27 "2013-01-10T12:33:07Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#): > > Not to get too inflammatory here, but dare I say it, some of the quotes from Martin Luther would very easily be approved by the some in the American Left when discussing Palestine today, and some on the American extreme right who have nothing good to say about the Jews to begin with. I watched a TV show a couple of years ago that stated that HItler’s biological father was Jewish, I got the impression from that, that his father deserted him and that is why he hated the Jewish people. I think he considered himself a Christian but didn’t follow it’s teachings. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/28 "2013-01-10T15:14:03Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I watched a TV show a couple of years ago that stated that HItler’s biological father was Jewish, I got the impression from that, that his father deserted him and that is why he hated the Jewish people. I think he considered himself a Christian but didn’t follow it’s teachings. There were questions about the paternity of Hitler’s father, not of Hitler himself. Hitler’s paternal grandmother was a maid who got pregnant while unmarried, one of the households she served was Jewish, however a older man named Hitler claimed paternity & married her. That’s where all that comes from. Did Hitler consider himself a Christian? Perhaps. Did he follow the clear teaching of Jesus on how to treat people? Nope. Was he also involved in esoteric neo-Pagan ideas & practices? Definitely but not to the extent that he was a master occultist. He would use whatever he could to empower himself- cultural Christian identiy, blood & soil Aryan mysticism, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/29 "2013-01-10T15:22:27Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Did he follow the clear teaching of Jesus on how to treat people? Nope. If that’s the bar, there are fewer Christians in this country than I thought. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/30 "2013-01-10T16:09:28Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If that’s the bar, there are fewer Christians in this country than I thought. Seems a pretty reasonable bar to me. And yes, there are orders of magnitude fewer christians around than people think. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/31 "2013-01-10T16:24:18Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Seems a pretty reasonable bar to me. And yes, there are orders of magnitude fewer christians around than people think. Of course the trouble with that is who gets to decide if someone is Christian enough? It has to be based on self-reporting. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/32 "2013-01-10T17:34:42Z")
Gee, I thought Christianity believed that no one is capable of avoiding sin and that the test for salvation was believing in absolution through the crucifixion, but I guess when the consequences of that belief (e.g., that Hitler must have been saved if he believed) are too embarrassing for Christians, suddenly we can pretend there’s a covenant of works and that no one who does bad things could possibly be a Christian. You religious people sure are funny in your obvious lack of comfort with your own beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/33 "2013-01-10T17:46:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Not really. Tyranny, ruthless conquest and killing Jews after blaming them for all your problems are very Christian. Just look at history. I cannot think of a single Christian who does any of this. It is not the mode of Christians. It may be the mode of some emperors, or somebody else, but, these would be, by definition, outliers. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/34 "2013-01-10T17:50:28Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Hitler met the requirements to be called a Christian, which is simply for him to refer to himself as one. In Mein Kampf, Hitler wrote: “I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord..” Uh, I don’t see a claim to be a Christian in this passage… ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/35 "2013-01-10T17:55:12Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I cannot think of a single Christian who does any of this. It is not the mode of Christians. It may be the mode of some emperors, or somebody else, but, these would be, by definition, outliers. In the Middle Ages antisemitic violence was often performed by the common people, often against the will of both church and secular authorities, who were both cosmopolitan enough to realize that senseless violence was wrong (and used the Jews as moneylenders in the latter case,) but of course did not often put their lives on the line to defend the Jews against the hordes of lower class people determined to seek out a scapegoat (sometimes probably egged on by the merchants who owed them money, but I’m a bit hazy on that point.) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/36 "2013-01-10T20:42:51Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > In the Middle Ages antisemitic violence was often performed by the common people, often against the will of both church and secular authorities, who were both cosmopolitan enough to realize that senseless violence was wrong (and used the Jews as moneylenders in the latter case,) but of course did not often put their lives on the line to defend the Jews against the hordes of lower class people determined to seek out a scapegoat (sometimes probably egged on by the merchants who owed them money, but I’m a bit hazy on that point.) I take it you’re not familiar with the Inquisition (Spanish or otherwise), nor historical happen-stance such as the rule of Philip IV the Fair (don’t get fooled - dude’s moniker stems from the fact that he was a dish, not that he was righteous), and so on. Catholic influenced rulers certainly did oppress the Jews, not the least of which out of a sense of “otherness” brooked by Catholic authorities, and beyond the feelings of the little people. Not that the whole shebang was confined to Judaism, really - various “heretical” groups were similarly victimized, even more so when they commanded popular respect, and even more \*more \*so when they were frickin’ loaded or otherwise threatened the wealth of Catholic institutions (see: Cathars, Fraticelli, pagans in the Balkans… even run-of-the-mill Franciscan monks) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/37 "2013-01-10T21:19:08Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I take it you’re not familiar with the Inquisition Didn’t really pick up steam until the Renaissance and if you look at it it was a lot less violent than it could have been – stories contrariwise are exaggerations. It was content with terror and appropriation for the most part, relative to the pogroms and witch-burnings that the common folk were wont to do. Do you think it would have been less violent if it had been driven by the common people? For examples of this look to renaissance Protestant countries: much more popular participation in witch-hunting and much more killing. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/38 "2013-01-10T21:48:23Z")
Continuing the above: The Inquisition was principally, and in msot areas completely, about thoroughly reviewing various local practices and making sure teachings were consistent and theologically correct. However, things become more complicated because some rulers created their Inquisitions; one of the downsides of a premodern civilizationw as that it was often hard to separate Church and State; that’s a new invention in large part because of increased communication meant that secular and religious authories could exist alongside one another in reasonable peace. For most of human history it was almost impossible for significant religions to avoid becoming entangled in politics and even running large-scale states and economies whether they particularly wanted to or not. The Spanish Inquisition was one of the state inquisitions, and one which turned more violent than most. Even then it wasn’t even remotely as violent as rumored - rumors rumors largely created by hardline English Protestants in part to cover their own legacy of repression. Additionally, the Inquisition became violent not out of a sudden theological impulse, but because Spanish nobles felt extremely threatened by the numerous and successful converts from Islam and Judaism. In the late 15th and early 16th centuries, they formed a rising mercentile/clerical class that was forming a strong bourgouise base in Spanish society. Unfortunately, the Spanish nobility thought the idea of anyone getting the better of them none too kosher\* and forced the duel monarchs to aggressively suppress them and/or foprce them out of Spain proper. As a result, many of the best and brightest left Spain to settle in Morocco, AFAIK moved to the new, rising colonies. This brain-drain more or less crushed Spain’s chances of remaining a major nation (it might have become the first-class industrial/commercial power). But at the same time, it probably helped spread Spanish culture over a truly ludicrous amount of the planet. \*Rimshot ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/39 "2013-01-10T22:28:47Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I take it you’re not familiar with the Inquisition (Spanish or otherwise)… Hmmmm…I wasn’t expecting that. ---
**Author:** ![YourAdHere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/65b543/32.png) [@YourAdHere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YourAdHere)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455/40 "2013-01-10T23:22:50Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Hmmmm…I wasn’t expecting that. Nobody ever is, that’s the thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-christian/646455.md?page=3)