# Was Hitler a Competent Artist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 4, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128 "2011-09-04T02:38:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/41 "2011-09-04T17:55:01Z")
Interesting thread. Hitler was a mediocre artist…plus, most of his stuff was destroyed-by his own orders (once he became the Fuhrer). Another question: there seems to a be a persistent rumor that Hitler worked (for a time) as a wall paper hanger-is this true? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/42 "2011-09-04T18:08:12Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Son of a bitch. > > I had no idea. > > Am I the only one to have missed this hidden talent for the last 60 years? I mean obviously we had other things to focus on, but I had no idea that this was one of Adolf’s hidden talents. It’s like finding out Osama bin Laden had a viable rap career. It would have popped up in any detailed bio for at least two reasons: (1) There’s an armchair psychologist school of thought that says his failure in the art world is what set him off on a bad path (of course, there’s also the increasingly attenuated armchair psychology views that he was mad because he caught syphillis from a Jewish prostitute, or his grandmother was secretly Jewish so he was filled with self-hate, or . . . .). (2) There seems no doubt he was **competent** as in being able to paint reasonably pretty, lifelike pictures that wouldn’t shock you if you saw them hanging on your dentist’s wall. The debate among art scholars generally comes down that he was trite, conventional, sentimental, lacked inspiration. On the one hand, this is consistent with his being rather, uh, conservative overall, and certainly the paintings I’ve seen tend toward the pastoral, glorifying-German-village-life, old-school manner. On the other hand – and this is the part that would also pop up in the bio – Hitler notoriously made art a doctrinaire part of his politics, most notoriously by staging shows of “Degenerate Art,” or burning all sorts of Modernist or Jewish-painted art. Art scholars, some of whom seem to make something of a point of pride of embracing Modernist or Abstract forms, still haven’t forgiven him for that vandalism (sometimes you wonder if they’re madder at him for that than for everything else he did), so I sometimes question whether their condemnation of his mediocre painting talents is a bit overdone. But as you can see from the pictures, you’d have to agree that he wasn’t doing anything masterful or groundbreaking on the canvas, and if things had gone differently and he’d stuck with that career, it’s doubtful anyone would be bidding up into the millions at Christie’s on an original composition of his. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/43 "2011-09-04T18:08:21Z")
> [@FasterThanMeerkats](#): > > The Fuhrer vas a vonderful painter. He could paint an entire flat in one afternoon. Two coats!!😃 > > Thank you Mel Brooks. No…thank YOU **FasterThanMeerkats** ; I have been waiting for 27 posts! hh ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/44 "2011-09-04T18:21:03Z")
Hitler intended to put all stolen and looted art in a huge Nazi art museum after the war, in Linz. > **[Führermuseum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrermuseum)** > > .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct,.mw-parser-output .geo-inline-hidden{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}48°17′25″N 14°17′31″E / 48.290139°N 14.291981°E / 48.290139; 14.291981 > The Führermuseum or Fuhrer-Museum (English: Leader's Museum), also referred to as the Linz art gallery, was an unrealized art mu... > [@](#): > > The Führermuseum (English, Führer museum) was an unrealized museum complex planned by Adolf Hitler for the Austrian city of Linz to display the collection of art plundered or purchased by the Nazis throughout Europe during World War II. > > The plans for the Linz complex designed by Albert Speer and other architects included a monumental theatre, an opera house and an Adolf Hitler Hotel, all surrounded by huge boulevards and a parade ground. A library would house at least 250,000 books; the museum itself would have a colonnaded façade about 500 feet (150 meters) long, in the design paralleling that of the Haus der Deutsche Kunst already erected in Munich. It would stand on the site of the Linz railroad station, which was to be moved four kilometers to the south. > > Collection > > On 21 June 1939, Hitler set up the Sonderauftrag Linz (Special Commission: Linz) in Dresden and appointed Dr Hans Posse, director of the Gemäldegalerie Alte Meister (Dresden picture gallery), as special envoy. The Sonderauftrag collected art for the Führermuseum, which Hitler wanted to build in Linz, his hometown in Upper Austria, and for other museums in the German Reich, especially in the eastern territories. The artworks would have been distributed to these museums after the war. > …The methods of acquisition ranged from confiscation to purchase and includes many cases of forced sale, using funds from sales of Hitler’s book Mein Kampf and stamps showing his portrait. The purchases were mostly stored in the Führerbau (Hitler’s office building) in Munich; the confiscated artworks were stored in deposits in Upper Austria. Since February 1944, the art works were moved to the salt mines of Altaussee to protect them from increased bombing. Detailed records of the collection were kept at Dresden and moved to Schloß Weesenstein at the end of the war, where they were confiscated by the Russians. I had no idea Churchill was such a good painter. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/45 "2011-09-04T19:15:54Z")
Holy shit, Hitler drew a picture of [my](http://files.sharenator.com/g252012_Adolf_Hitlers_Paintings-s400x382-858-580.jpg) [dog](http://www.flickr.com/photos/zipperjj/420131670/)! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/46 "2011-09-04T19:21:12Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Hitler intended to put all stolen and looted art in a huge Nazi art museum after the war, in Linz. > > [Führermuseum - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrermuseum) > > I had no idea Churchill was such a good painter. Well, he was no Hitler… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/47 "2011-09-04T19:47:30Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I got the impression 😉 Goering took more classic pieces from France. Stuff he personally liked. He literally could pick and choose from The Louvre. While a failure at military tactics, the French were proud that Goering did not manage to pick anything from The Louvre, the French showed that they were at least masters at hiding art (in salt cellars, private homes) and when the conflict was over the pieces returned to the museum, a french documentary reported that every single piece did return! [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/boYe9FYaUcM/hqdefault.jpg "Golden Prison - The Louvre (Pt 4 of 6)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boYe9FYaUcM) https://www.youtube.com/embed/kegdAl4bmGM?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque BTW that documentary (The Golden Prison) on the history of the Louvre is recommended, although it is missing the latest features like the pyramid as it was made in 1978. https://www.youtube.com/embed/noJ86uo2ZH4?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/48 "2011-09-04T20:58:34Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Churchill was a successful journalist and a very good writer so perhaps they could have made a nice illustrated children’s book. I wonder if Hitler’s limited but competent illustration skills could’ve gotten him in on the ground floor of superhero comic books. He was about four or five years older than the original artist who drew Wonder Woman, right around when Superman and Batman first started headlining titles in the '30s – and four or five years _ **younger** _ than Charles Reizenstien, who was cranking out crudely-drawn stories featuring Doctor Mid-Nite and Mister Terrific. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/49 "2011-09-04T21:18:14Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I wonder if Hitler’s limited but competent illustration skills could’ve gotten him in on the ground floor of superhero comic books. He was about four or five years older than the original artist who drew Wonder Woman, right around when Superman and Batman first started headlining titles in the '30s – and four or five years _ **younger** _ than Charles Reizenstien, who was cranking out crudely-drawn stories featuring Doctor Mid-Nite and Mister Terrific. The quality of his drawing would seem to be more than adequate. I think temperament would have been the bigger issue. On the one hand, he was very big into mythology and quasi-mysticism, so you can see him populating a universe of godlike Norse overlords, maybe. On the other hand, there doesn’t seem to have been much about him that was fanciful or humorous, and he took himself so freaking seriously that I’m sure that either a new art form (that took a long time even to be recognized as an art form) or something that was perceived as for children might have had a hard time passing muster with his inflated sense of Dignity and Destiny, or his pride in himself as a classical old-school artist. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/50 "2011-09-04T21:41:58Z")
**Picasso** ‘‘Did you hear? The Nazis have labeled our work as ‘degenerate’.’’ \*\*Dali \*\* ‘‘That kinda makes you proud, doesn’t it?’’ ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/51 "2011-09-04T22:03:26Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Oh, but they _did_ have a paint-off. A stormy, testy battle of artistic wills and skills, sometime during the early-to-mid-30’s, which surely deepened their already considerable mutual hatred – and possibly even triggered WWII! > > [One of the most fascinating events of the 20th century, and yet – sadly, incredibly – almost completely forgotten today.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP7camnyge8) That was excellent. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![zeno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zeno/32/15040_2.png) [@zeno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zeno)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/52 "2011-09-04T23:41:23Z")
He was obviously no great artist. He had technical skill–and it’s apparent he worked very hard-- but while I am no art critic, it’s also apparent that he lacked that je ne sais quoi to be a professional artist. His work has a Hallmark Card quality to it. He might have earned a living as a commercial artist, if such a thing existed in his day. ---
**Author:** ![taffygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@taffygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taffygirl)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/53 "2011-09-05T00:02:18Z")
[quote=“ralph124c, post:41, topic:595128”] Interesting thread. Hitler was a mediocre artist…plus, most of his stuff was destroyed-by his own orders (once he became the Fuhrer). According to several sites I’ve perused, he didn’t ordered his paintings destroyed but had his henchmen buy them up and then had them stored. The idea was to prevent reproductions of his work. At least we were spared even more bad reproductions of bad art. Here’s one cite, but there are quite a few. > **[Snyder’s Treasure Trove](https://bestwritersonline.org/snyders-treasure-trove)** > > Snyder's “Treasure Trove: The Looting of the Third Reich” was written in the year 2000 after five years of thorough preparation. I saw a documentary on PBS one time (sorry this is vague–that’s the problem) that mentioned that Hitler was still painting well into the war. I recall something about him painting the view from the Eagle’s Nest. Yet I can’t find anything about this. When did he actually stop painting? ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/54 "2011-09-05T00:43:39Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > There’s a 2002 John Cusack movie, _Max_, about how Hitler’s budding art career might have gone astray: [Max - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_%28film%29) I second that people interested in the artist side of Hitler should see this movie, as well as the documentary [The Architecture of Doom](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Architecture_of_Doom). In Max, Hitler is a down and outer WWI vet in shambled post war Germany. He’s at loose ends and sort of drifting within his ill formed notions of aesthetics and politics. Without going into details, the story gives you a vague impression that Hitler may have started the whole Third Reich thing as a sort of performance art project. In one of the best scenes he even declares something like “Politics is the new art.” In TAOD you see just how influential Hitler’s aesthetic notions were in shaping his approach to, it seems, just about everything about the Third Reich. One of the many great tid bits from this movie is that one of Hitler’s prime concerns in the design of Reich buildings was that they would leave grandiose ruins. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/55 "2011-09-05T01:50:32Z")
> [@Oly](#): > > In TAOD you see just how influential Hitler’s aesthetic notions were in shaping his approach to, it seems, just about everything about the Third Reich. One of the many great tid bits from this movie is that one of Hitler’s prime concerns in the design of Reich buildings was that they would leave grandiose ruins. Although Nuremberg was the first war crimes trial, it seems a safe bet it will also be the last time an architect (Speer) is put on trial for being a central figure in crimes against humanity (admittedly, it was not just his architecture but his work on logistics and armaments distribution that got him there). ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/56 "2011-09-05T06:04:12Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > While a failure at military tactics, the French were proud that Goering did not manage to pick anything from The Louvre, the French showed that they were at least masters at hiding art (in salt cellars, private homes) and when the conflict was over the pieces returned to the museum, a french documentary reported that every single piece did return! Same in the Netherlands. I used to be a tour guide for Maastrichts underground cave/quarry’s. There was a secured chamber that briefly housed the Nightwatch, Hollands most famous painting, during the height of the war. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/57 "2011-09-05T06:23:00Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Was Hitler a Competent Artist? He was a Concept Artist with a really bad concept. ---
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/58 "2011-09-05T06:27:36Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > (admittedly, it was not just his architecture but his work on logistics and armaments distribution that got him there). Speer’s being tried at Nuremberg had nothing to do with his architecture at all. He was tried as Minister of Armaments and his use of slave labor. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128/59 "2011-09-05T06:48:21Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > He was a Concept Artist with a really bad concept. And don’t get me started on his execution… Very messy - practically ruined a whole continent. Why couldn’t he have tried wrapping countries in pretty fabrics like Christo did later? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-a-competent-artist/595128.md?page=2)