# Was Hitler tried in absentia anywhere for war crimes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 24, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688 "2012-09-24T17:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/1 "2012-09-24T17:47:52Z")
At the time of the Nuremberg tribunals no one knew for sure whether Hitler was dead. Did they try him anywhere _in absentia_? I know for a fact that this happened with lesser fry. And what about the leaders they knew were dead, like Himmler? If there were no such trials then legally Hitler and Himmler are innocent of any wrongdoing and that seems just grotesque. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/2 "2012-09-24T17:55:50Z")
Martin Bormann was tried\* in absentia\*, but it doesn’t appear that Adolf Hitler was. Interesting question. I don’t think anyone really believes Hitler or Himmler were innocent. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/3 "2012-09-24T18:40:47Z")
Are deceased people ever tried in absentia in the modern western world? I’m sure they have been at some time in the past. I mean a criminal trial, of course. Civil action against an estate isn’t uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/4 "2012-09-24T18:50:21Z")
I don’t think there was ever a trial. First off, while there were rumors to the contrary, I don’t think there was all that much doubt that Hitler was dead. His death was reported the day after his suicide. And I wonder if people at the time would have really thought it was important to establish Hitler’s guilt. He was the man in charge, wasn’t it obvious that he was responsible? In some ways demonstrating that people further down the chain were also responsible for their actions was more important. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/5 "2012-09-24T18:52:41Z")
Hitler was well known to be dead by the time of Nuremberg. That was not the case for Borman. I don’t think any civilised legal system (not that such a thing exists but I’ll pretend that the ones in developed countries are semi-civilised) have ways of putting dead people on trial, but Gracia Jacques was given a trial by a mob in Haiti and beaten to death, despite being a corpse long before this time. The most infamous postumus trial imo is that of Pope Formosus in the [Cadaver Synod](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod). I think that he was dug up because he had to be in the court room to be put on trial. Although he was found guilty, things did not go well for those who put him on trial in the end… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/6 "2012-09-24T18:55:02Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > The most infamous postumus trial imo is that of Pope Formosus in the [Cadaver Synod](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod). I think that he was dug up because he had to be in the court room to be put on trial. Although he was found guilty, things did not go well for those who put him on trial in the end… My emphasis: > [@](#): > > The Cadaver Synod is remembered as one of the most bizarre episodes in the history of the medieval papacy. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/7 "2012-09-24T18:55:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And I wonder if people at the time would have really thought it was important to establish Hitler’s guilt. He was the man in charge, wasn’t it obvious that he was responsible? In some ways demonstrating that people further down the chain were also responsible for their actions was more important. Many did not think it was at all important to establish ANY of the senior Nazi’s guilt, including Churchill who wanted to declare them outlaws (and thus liable to be summarily shot). He feared that by introducing this bizarre fake court charade that was basically practicing post-facto law there was a real danger of giving up national soverignty - and I think that later developments in so-called international law have proven him right. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/8 "2012-09-24T19:55:40Z")
BTW there _was_ one empty-chair trial against Hitler: a de-nazification hearing by a _Spruchkammer_ in Munich (where Hitler’s private residence was registered) on 15 October 1948, the result of which was that Hitler’s estate was confiscated in favour of the state of Bavaria. [German-language magazine article](http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-21057454.html). ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/9 "2012-09-24T22:24:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t think there was ever a trial. **First off, while there were rumors to the contrary, I don’t think there was all that much doubt that Hitler was dead.** His death was reported the day after his suicide. And I wonder if people at the time would have really thought it was important to establish Hitler’s guilt. This. There were persistent stories for decades that we was still alive, presumably living in Argentina or some such place. From the start, this had all the same reliability status, as the later belief that Elvis is still alive. It was urban legend from the start, really, but as the years passed, people became less sure of the real history. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/10 "2012-09-25T00:04:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t think there was ever a trial. First off, while there were rumors to the contrary, I don’t think there was all that much doubt that Hitler was dead. His death was reported the day after his suicide. And the Internet wasn’t around to fuel rumors of his resurrection or theories of faking his death and going to the moon. ---
**Author:** ![kurtisokc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kurtisokc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurtisokc)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/11 "2012-09-25T00:30:17Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > If there were no such trials then legally Hitler and Himmler are innocent of any wrongdoing and that seems just grotesque. Wrong. Never legally proven guilty does not equal innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/12 "2012-09-25T04:01:42Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > And the Internet wasn’t around to fuel rumors of his resurrection or theories of faking his death and going to the moon. I knew there was something funny about Neal Armstrong. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/13 "2012-09-25T06:09:40Z")
> [@kurtisokc](#): > > Wrong. Never legally proven guilty does not equal innocent. Innocent until proven guilty? ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/14 "2012-09-25T11:19:07Z")
As it happens, the Hitler-was-innocent claim is one that gets some play in far right holocaust denial circles. The story is that while the holocaust never happened, if it did (which it totally didn’t), then it was perpetrated by lower-down members of the Nazi bureaucracy like Eichmann who exceeded their orders. And that Hitler, who was really a nice guy (and a terrific dancer) would have been completely shocked and outraged if he’d found out about it. I’m not making this up, you can’t parody holocaust deniers. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/15 "2012-09-25T12:11:24Z")
The FBI investigated rumors about Hitler still being alive: > **[Adolf Hitler](https://vault.fbi.gov/adolf-hitler)** > > Adolph Hitler (1889-1945) was leader of the National Socialist (Nazi) Party and Chancellor of Germany from 1933-1945; he led that country into World War II in 1939. The documents in this file range from 1933 to 1947, but primarily fall either in 1933... One document is from 1950 and many parts are still blacked out. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/16 "2012-09-25T13:08:41Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > The most infamous postumus trial imo is that of Pope Formosus in the [Cadaver Synod](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod). I think that he was dug up because he had to be in the court room to be put on trial. Although he was found guilty, things did not go well for those who put him on trial in the end… Another famous one, Oliver Cromwell was [posthumously executed](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_cromwell#Death_and_posthumous_execution). As a consequence, his head merits [it’s own wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Cromwell%27s_head). ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/17 "2012-09-25T14:42:14Z")
Hitler was the subject of a [mock trial in Madison Square Garden in 1934](http://thehistoricpresent.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/american-isolationism-the-mock-trial-of-hitler/). He was pissed about it and the fact that the US government wouldn’t do anything about it just made him madder. When he complained to the US ambassador, he was told about freedom of speech and how the government couldn’t stop it. He was mystified. To him, it was something that could be cleared up quickly by a couple hundred cops with nightsticks. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/18 "2012-09-25T14:58:21Z")
In the years following WW II, nobody seriously doubted that Hitler was dead. However, you will find this topic discussed in newspapers and magazines of that era, even respectable ones. I would say the notion wasn’t perceived as crazy as claims that Elvis is still alive are today. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-hitler-tried-in-absentia-anywhere-for-war-crimes/635688/19 "2012-09-25T15:55:06Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Innocent until proven guilty? I don’t think American jurisprudence claims anyone is “innocent until proven guilty.” I think the government is required to consider you innocent until you are proven guilty, which is an entirely different thing. You are (actually) guilty or innocent depending on whether or not you did it, not how any agency regards you.