# Was I a jerk in this situation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 6, 2010, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379 "2010-08-06T07:09:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/101 "2010-08-06T17:28:59Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Seems to me that the coworker failed to meet his obligations moreso than the OP did. Maybe, but that is an entirely different assertion than your previous. > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > The OP had exactly one place to get breakfast, if I’m reading things right. Do you think that he should have just skipped breakfast, then? Or should he have carried his breakfast up into his room? Is he obliged to ALWAYS let other people violate his boundaries? I think that, in the environment, he should have not ignored (or pointedly stated his intention to ignore) his acquaintance at the table. If he was unable to make even this tiny concession to the fact of living in a larger society with other human beings, then yes, he should have scuttled back to his rooms like a light-fearing insect. In my interpretation, the other fellow did not violate any boundaries (of normal, civilized behavior) at all. ---
**Author:** ![6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/e19adc/32.png) [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/102 "2010-08-06T17:32:56Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > The problem is that this isn’t a hard and fast rule. Ah, but you see the hard and fast rule **Meyer6** is “No reading at the table.” Had that been adhered to, none of us would be here and **madmonk** wouldn’t still be mad about it all. God knows I’d probably be reading a book. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/103 "2010-08-06T17:35:21Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Are you an only child or something? Hey! > [@Ogre](#): > > a board full of socially awkward introverts Hey! 🙂 Anyway I am an introvert as well ( only occasionally socially awkward ), but I think I would have made some minimal small talk, then excused myself at the first polite opportunity. I would be internally annoyed, but I hate being snubbed myself, so unless I really couldn’t stand the person I’d try not to give the impression of the same. I agree the guy was being slightly clueless and inept himself by inviting himself to your table without asking. Really the best thing would have been for him to extend a greeting in passing and see how warmly you respond before even considering asking. But c’est la vie - I’m sure he was just trying to be ( just a little inappropriately ) social. So I guess I do regard you both as being a bit at fault. However I don’t regard this as a big deal in either direction. Especially if you’ve been on the job awhile and only get one day off a week to decompress. People get a little frayed, maybe a little protective of their personal time and they aren’t always as perfectly polite as they might be under different circumstances. As mentioned above it might also be harmless introvert/extrovert misunderstanding. It’s not like you snapped at the guy or anything. But since you asked, it was obviously on your mind. Frankly if it were _me_, next time I saw said co-worker I’d probably offer a minor apology for any perceived rudeness, but with an explanation about how you really feel the need to get some space from the claustrophobia of the job on your day off. Just make sure they know it wasn’t personal per se. But that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/104 "2010-08-06T17:36:46Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Sure it was. It’s entirely possible for both things to be rude. Sitting down at breakfast was a mild faux pas. Blatantly ignoring the guy was out-and-out rude, warning or no. Wrong. \*If \*he had invited his coworker down for breakfast, \*then \*it would be rude to ignore him. But the man _barged in on his private breakfast_. I have no obligation to entertain you on my own time. The OP didn’t tell the coworker to go away; he simply informed him that he was going to continue doing what he was doing when he was interrupted. > [@spark240](#): > > If he was unable to make even this tiny concession to the fact of living in a larger society with other human beings, then yes, he should have scuttled back to his rooms like a light-fearing insect. > > In my interpretation, the other fellow did not violate any boundaries (of normal, civilized behavior) at all. And your interpretation is wrong. People who would like a bit of privacy shouldn’t be forced to barricade themselves in private rooms. Inviting yourself into a social situation is pretty damned rude, and that’s \*exactly \*what the coworker did. If the coworker cannot entertain himself, it’s not the OP’s job to do so. It behooves the coworker to find someone who actually wants to socialize in the morning if he needs conversation with his breakfast, instead of forcing himself on someone who is otherwise occupied. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/105 "2010-08-06T17:37:02Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Good grief. Perhaps he was just being friendish. Nice to know that acknowledging your coworkers out of work times means that you’re desperately needy with some sort of psychiatric intervention required. Did I _say_ that he was that needy? The rest of that comment–which you did not quote–was postulating a circumstance in which something inspired a serious need to talk to someone. The part you quoted was referring to a possible case in which someone felt desperate to talk to someone even when they had no external circumstance triggering it and no long-term lack of company. If someone needs that much contact with others to be comfortable, what’s going to happen to them after breakfast, when you conclude your chat and go back to your room to read? Since the guy didn’t insist on conversation, he was obviously not that desperate. He probably wanted to chat, which is fine, but which does not obligate anyone to engage him in such chat. I’m sure he got over it in far less time than people have spent on this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/106 "2010-08-06T17:40:38Z")
Also, note that [reading is absolutely permitted at the breakfast table](http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/article.aspx?cp-documentid=20798076), even in a situation where people have agreed to eat together, versus where one party has invited himself: > [@](#): > > You will be relieved to hear that reading is permitted at the breakfast table, although at no other meals. The rule was made for the reading of newspapers, and Miss Manners dearly hopes this will forever continue to apply, but hedges by allowing wider interpretations. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/107 "2010-08-06T17:43:36Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Inviting yourself into a social situation is pretty damned rude, and that’s \*exactly \*what the coworker did. Well, I’d say that each of them invited themselves into the social situation when they entered the hotel dining room. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/108 "2010-08-06T17:47:10Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Also, note that [reading is absolutely permitted at the breakfast table](http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/article.aspx?cp-documentid=20798076), even in a situation where people have agreed to eat together, versus where one party has invited himself: > > > [@](#): > > > > You will be relieved to hear that reading is permitted at the breakfast table, although at no other meals. The rule was made for the reading of newspapers, and Miss Manners dearly hopes this will forever continue to apply, but hedges by allowing wider interpretations. Yah well, Ms. Manners and my paternal grandmother can have a throw down then, 'cus granny would have had a FIT if someone had tried it, newspaper or not. That being said, I suspect Ms. Manners would win as granny died over 20 years ago and probably doesn’t have much fight in her anymore. I also acknowledge that when I go out to dinner by myself and bring a book to read, the poor woman probably spins in her grave. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/109 "2010-08-06T17:49:35Z")
If I’m in a hotel dining room 3,000 miles from home and see one of three other people in the entire country that I know, I’m going to sit with him. Even if he’s wearing a tin foil hat, wearing puppets on both hands, and no pants. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/110 "2010-08-06T17:53:47Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Even if he’s wearing a tin foil hat, wearing puppets on both hands, and no pants. I would go out of my way to sit with him then!! ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/111 "2010-08-06T17:54:20Z")
A general observation not directed at anyone in particular. When you start setting the stage as to whether something is rude or not in terms of my rights vs your rights you’ve missed the whole damn boat IMO. A major component of being polite is about making minor concessions on your part to make the other person comfortable and letting them know thats what you are trying to do. Its not just about hard and fast rules, who has what rights, or who did what to whom first, or some fricking social chest game/Ms Manners version of Thunderdome. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/112 "2010-08-06T18:01:30Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > If I’m in a hotel dining room 3,000 miles from home and see one of three other people in the entire country that I know, I’m going to sit with him. The last time I was on such a business trip, the coworker who accompanied me was the _only_ other person I knew in the country, and I didn’t speak the local language. Also, the coworker in question is a friend of long standing (to such an extent that I’ve helped him move, though I have not helped him move bodies). We made no particular effort to sit together on our days off. We generally did sit together at breakfast on work days. He read the local paper, and I attempted to sharpen my language skills by doing the same, mostly in companionable silence. On rare occasions, he’d point out an article of mutual interest, or I’d ask about something that was defying my efforts to translate. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/113 "2010-08-06T18:02:11Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Also, note that [reading is absolutely permitted at the breakfast table](http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/article.aspx?cp-documentid=20798076), I find nothing wrong with _reading_ at the table. I’d not mind at other meals, even. It’s the intention to ignore people, and the call for rigid and distant personal boundaries in a social space, which I find uncivil. I often read at the table. I might even continue reading something after someone joined me. But I would not ignore the person with me, let alone _say_ that I wanted to. I might well make remarks to my companion based on the reading. If a conversation developed that–combined also with eating–made further reading too much of a multitask, I’d set the reading aside. The great thing about portable reading materials is that they can be picked up and put aside, and taken to other places with ease. But the here and now should take precedence. ---
**Author:** ![6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/e19adc/32.png) [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/114 "2010-08-06T18:05:42Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > If I’m in a hotel dining room 3,000 miles from home and see one of three other people in the entire country that I know, I’m going to sit with him. > > Even if he’s wearing a tin foil hat, wearing puppets on both hands, and no pants. So there are three puppets then **Leaffan**? **Balance** , with that ‘companionable silence’ it’s much better when puppets are involved. They point better. **billfish** , I agree. You are the Puppet Master. You see, **spark**? All so complicated. Just refer to The Rule: No reading at the table. It’ll also save\*\* alice\*\*'s granny spinning like that. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/115 "2010-08-06T18:07:53Z")
> [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](#): > > **Balance** , with that ‘companionable silence’ it’s much better when puppets are involved. Well, of course. Puppets make _everything_ better. ---
**Author:** ![6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/e19adc/32.png) [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/116 "2010-08-06T18:09:25Z")
…we can really string this out, you know… ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/117 "2010-08-06T18:09:42Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Well, I’d say that each of them invited themselves into the social situation when they entered the hotel dining room. Why? What is it about a restaurant that means that people get to invade your space without your invitation? > [@billfish678](#): > > When you start setting the stage as to whether something is rude or not in terms of my rights vs your rights you’ve missed the whole damn boat IMO. Rudeness is never the correct response to rudeness. However, there’s nothing rude about reading a book, when you’ve sat down to eat by yourself, having extended no invitation to anyone else to join you. If another person \*does \*invite themself to join you, that doesn’t make it rude for you to continue what you were doing before they interrupted. > [@spark240](#): > > But the here and now should take precedence. Why is making smalltalk with someone he didn’t invite to join him more important than having some personal time to read a book? One is not obligated to humor someone who’s interrupting you. You shouldn’t be rude to them, but you don’t need to accomodate them, either. You simply excuse yourself and return to what you were doing–which is exactly what the OP did. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/118 "2010-08-06T18:15:31Z")
If someone asks a personal question that I have no intention of answering, for example, is it also rude of me to not answer? Because after all, it’s like I’m \*ignoring \*them. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/119 "2010-08-06T18:25:38Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@Ogre](#): > > > > Sure it was. It’s entirely possible for both things to be rude. Sitting down at breakfast was a mild faux pas. Blatantly ignoring the guy was out-and-out rude, warning or no. > > Wrong. \*If \*he had invited his coworker down for breakfast, \*then \*it would be rude to ignore him. But the man _barged in on his private breakfast_. I have no obligation to entertain you on my own time. An excellent illustration of my first post in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/120 "2010-08-06T18:26:21Z")
Here’s the deal. Without assigning any sort of blame or accusations, **madmonk28** was presented with a choice. A colleague sat down for breakfast with him and he could have: a) put the book down and make the colleague feel comfortible and strengthen the relationship. b) focus on the book, make the colleague feel a bit uncomfortible and put a bit of strain on their relationship. Whatever answer is “right” depends on the what **madmonk28** values. If asserting his personal time is more important, then (b). If developing the relationship is more important, then (a). Keep in mind, however, that you could end up “in the right” but also very much alone if you continue to make people feel as if they are unwelcome. Courtesy is about sparing people’s feelings, not following some arbitrary set of rules. Sure, the correct thing would be for the colleague to ask if it was ok to join. But you can’t control what other people do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379.md?page=7)