# Was I a jerk in this situation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 6, 2010, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379 "2010-08-06T07:09:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/141 "2010-08-06T19:38:14Z")
Ah. Found a couple of them: [25 Armor Begone - Giant in the Playground Games](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0025.html) [26 Bardic Nudity - Giant in the Playground Games](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0026.html) [27 The Delicate Art of Intraparty Negotiations - Giant in the Playground Games](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0027.html) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/142 "2010-08-06T19:41:59Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > We all do things on a daily basis that we don’t really want to do. It’s called being polite and courteous. So is not interrupting me when I’m busy. > [@](#): > > If I was that guy I’d never sit with you again. Win / win. > [@Ogre](#): > > Yes, you were rude. You treated a real, live human being like total shit so you could continue reading a book you could pick up any time. Wow. Did we read the same OP? Total shit? God forbid you should suffer a real insult. > [@](#): > > I’d think you were an utter waste of time, were I the other guy. Perfect! ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/143 "2010-08-06T19:43:00Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > [@Leaffan](#): > > > > We all do things on a daily basis that we don’t really want to do. It’s called being polite and courteous. > > So is not interrupting me when I’m busy. > > Win / win. > > Wow. Did we read the same OP? Total shit? God forbid you should suffer a real insult. > > > [@](#): > > > > I’d think you were an utter waste of time, were I the other guy. > > Perfect! I’ll just be over here reading while you catch up with the thread. Don’t bother me until I give you permission. ---
**Author:** ![6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/e19adc/32.png) [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/144 "2010-08-06T19:47:35Z")
OOoo! Look! Now my puppets have tinfoil hats! _clap_ _clap_ _clap_ _clap_ ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/145 "2010-08-06T19:51:29Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > I’ll just be over here reading while you catch up with the thread. Don’t bother me until I give you permission. You are confusing sitting down in a restaurant with posting on a message board. The latter is most definitely an invitation to engage in dialogue, while the former isn’t. So your permission is not required, nor is your insistence on it polite. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/146 "2010-08-06T19:54:04Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > [@Ogre](#): > > > > I’ll just be over here reading while you catch up with the thread. Don’t bother me until I give you permission. > > You are confusing sitting down in a restaurant with posting on a message board. No, as a matter of fact, I’m not. I was being snarky. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/147 "2010-08-06T19:55:09Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > > [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > > > then you can can cock of you fucking drooling idiot. > > Is this English?? -can +f ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/148 "2010-08-06T19:56:34Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > It looks like we’ve got ourselves a _reader_. > > Honestly, if I’m reading a book somewhere, and am perfectly happy doing so, and you just want to dribble on despite all the social signals I’m sending out, then you can cock off you fucking drooling idiot. Hey ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/149 "2010-08-06T19:58:09Z")
> [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](#): > > OOoo! Look! Now my puppets have tinfoil hats! _clap_ _clap_ _clap_ _clap_ Hello! ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/150 "2010-08-06T20:04:02Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > > You are confusing sitting down in a restaurant with posting on a message board. > > No, as a matter of fact, I’m not. I was being snarky. Isn’t that special. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/151 "2010-08-06T20:11:11Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > [@Ogre](#): > > > > No, as a matter of fact, I’m not. I was being snarky. > > Isn’t that special. Quite. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/152 "2010-08-06T20:28:15Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Isn’t that special. Church Lady?!?!?! ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/153 "2010-08-06T20:33:46Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Church Lady?!?!?! \*She \*didn’t have a problem telling rude interlopers where to go. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/154 "2010-08-06T20:34:34Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > > > Church Lady?!?!?! > > \*She \*didn’t have a problem telling rude interlopers where to go. True, and we all know she was a huge jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/155 "2010-08-06T20:41:45Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > True, and we all know she was a huge jerk. Actually, she was a fictional character played to comic effect. And the people she was talking to were actors who were in on the deal. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/156 "2010-08-06T20:42:23Z")
I have had the incredible luck to have been able to fuck off home early from work this afternoon, which means! I have at hand my copy of _Miss Manners’ Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior_. (_Which_, you may note, I have read from cover to cover. Yes, including the index, you cheeky little thing.) I’ve found [a passage](http://books.google.com/books?id=FOodocaTLsMC&lpg=PA115&ots=QfBZN8UmW3&dq=miss%20manners%20nice%20people%20have%20trouble%20saying%20no&pg=PA115#v=onepage&q=miss%20manners%20nice%20people%20have%20trouble%20saying%20no&f=false) that I believe is particularly relevant to all of you folks who seem to think that “being polite” requires “saying yes to everybody.” > [@](#): > > Mindful of etiquette’s injunction to please others, nice people have trouble saying no. This is a good way to get a bad reputation. > > […] It is etiquette itself that has a bad reputation, stemming from the mistaken belief it requires a perpetual sacrifice of one’s own wishes and judgment in favor of others’. As the naive invariably put it, “Isn’t etiquette always a matter of making other people feel comfortable?” This would make politeness an activity exclusively for suckers and wimps. And, of course, sluts. > > In fact, etiquette has no such requirement. The mistake arises from the fact that it does recognize that one has duties to others […] And it does require being polite to others, even when they are no role models themselves. > > But that is a far cry from declaring that courtesy means taking everybody else’s orders. And orders are constantly being issued, now that reticence and modesty are no longer considered the virtues they once were. The OP, was, in essence, invited to join his coworker (after the OP had already started his breakfast). He politely declined. That the coworker didn’t bother to ask and rather assumed that he was welcome _was the fault of the coworker_, and if he was embarrassed because he joined the table before being sure of his welcome and thus was put in the position of conducting his meal in silence, that was his own fault. > [@Ogre](#): > > Can’t you see I’m trying to READ? _Dragonriders of Pern_, man! Have you no life?! Hey now, don’t mock Anne McCaffrey. I thought she was the greatest thing ever… from the ages of seven to fourteen or so. > [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](#): > > In the realms of “Rudeness shouldn’t be answered with rudeness” \*\*SFG, \*\*"an icy, “_Excuse_ me?” is pretty damn rude in my book Miss Manners would explicitly disagree with you. This is precisely her advice for dealing with rude questions such as, “What’s wrong with your tarded baby?” It’s polite, because you’re assuming that the person could not possibly have had such poor taste as to ask such a question, so you must have misheard them. > [@](#): > > Your idea that embarrassment is a good ‘learning tool’ is not a leaf I’ll take from your book And again, this is not \*my \*book–it’s Miss Manners’. > [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > It looks like we’ve got ourselves a _reader_. What ‘choo readin’ for? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/157 "2010-08-06T20:45:34Z")
Miss Manners [advocating embarrassment as a teaching tool](http://www.pbs.org/thinktank/transcript1207.html): > [@](#): > > WATTENBERG: Here’s another one. “Dear Miss Manners; I am > a woman and my assistant is a man. I enjoy taking him out > to lunch sometimes to show my appreciation for him and he > seems to enjoy it. Sometimes the waitress makes a rude > comment such as ‘you’ – to the woman – ‘you should be buying > her lunch’. And I know that must embarrass him. Is there > something tactful that I could say to the waitress to save > his embarrassment?” > > MARTIN: The thing is to embarrass the waitress, but > you don’t do it rudely. You look at her blankly and you > turn back to the gentleman and you say, “As we were saying” > and you go on. The idea – that’s part of the chumminess of > why not chime in and give everybody advice and be helpful > and so on. Very bad idea. The waitress is supposed to put > the food on the table and not guess at the relationship > between the diners. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/158 "2010-08-07T04:05:19Z")
All that means is that Miss Manners is a jerk. I don’t know why people seem to think she’s so great if she thinks she has the right to try to passive-aggressively force people to follow the rules that she herself made up. She’s right about how to handle the conversation, but if your intent is to hurt the other person, rather than just communicate that you don’t want to talk, then you are a jerk. It’s really simple here–you have to pay attention to what you are communicating. If you noticed the guy was uncomfortable, you had the choice of being nice and helping, or being a jerk and not. That’s it. People whine about us saying that his right is higher than the OP’s. but the OP is just doing the exact opposite, saying his time is worth more than the other guy’s. Sure, his right to conversation doesn’t override your right to read. But your right to read doesnt’ override his right to conversation. It’s this stupid black-and-white thinking that drives me crazy. This is a false dichotomy. There are plenty of ways to have kept on reading while giving the most basic level of conversations. The fact that you noticed that it bothered him was enough for you to know you were hurting him, and to offer the basic level of help. Again, if you know something bad is happening, and do not even do the most basic things to stop it, then you are responsible. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/159 "2010-08-07T05:15:49Z")
This is easily the longest thread I have ever started. I’m off to breakfast with my colleagues so this will be short. I think some of the posters ‘outraged’ over my action have behaved much more rudely in this thread than what I did at breakfast and I think some people have not nearly as upset as they claim on this board. ---
**Author:** ![RedWood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f08c70/32.png) [@RedWood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedWood)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379/160 "2010-08-07T05:34:48Z")
hmmmmm were i asking to join a slight acquaintance, I would say “May I sit with you?” and follow it with “Please don’t let me distract you from your reading time…” but I am a Big Book Junkie [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-a-jerk-in-this-situation/549379.md?page=9)