# Was I an ugly (rude) American in Paris? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 21, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324 "2006-11-21T19:12:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/21 "2006-11-22T13:01:37Z")
[QUOTE=Martiju] While I agree that on this occasion, she had some prejudice that led her to be rude, I’ve never found that to be the general rule in France. In fact, I hate the stereotype that you portray here - not least because I get much worse treatment from people in London than I ever do in Paris or Nice. [/QUOTE] Well then I guess you’ve just been bloody lucky. I’ve been to France twice and on both visits I can honestly say I never met a more insular or arrogant bunch in my life. My friends and I bought beers at a bar close to Notre Dame, when we took them outside the bartender tried to charge us extra for… 1. Sitting down. 2. The View. “Mon Dieu” or should that be “Mein Gott” In any event he got sod all., would he have tried this on a French national? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/22 "2006-11-22T13:31:57Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] 1. Sitting down. 2. The View. [/QUOTE] **chowder** , my insular friend, that is the practice in France - you pay more depending where you’re sitting. When you order you’re meant to tell them where you’re going to sit and they adjust the bill accordingly. If you didn’t tell him where you were sitting, he probably charged you the lowest price, then had to adjust. Anyway, I’ve been to France many times, always on the lookout for the stereotype, and have only found it a couple of times, and then only in Paris. As to the OP - IMO it’s rude not to acknowledge someone in a service capacity, but ruder admonish someone for the oversight. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/23 "2006-11-22T14:00:15Z")
She was right about the custom to observe, but as far as I know, it’s as rude (and foolish) to upbraid your customers in France as it is in the US or Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/24 "2006-11-22T14:06:06Z")
[QUOTE=boytyperanma] When I deal with french speaking people I just accept that because I can’t speak French I will be treated like a rude American. I’ve dealt with plenty of people from other countries and cultures and I generaly find French and French Canadians impossible to appease. [/QUOTE] Huh. That’s funny, I’m monolingual and deal with french-speaking people all the time, and _I’m_ never treated like a rude American. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/25 "2006-11-22T15:13:54Z")
From what I can tell, the grand majority of the Evil French People thing comes from Parisians in Paris. Even if you met those same people in the South of France, they’d just be normal people. New Yorkers though, you can recognize wherever they go. 😛 My favorite one in Paris was where we caught a cab to a restaurant. Or rather, we called for a cab ahead of time. However, when he starts charging us is from the time he arrives, rather than the time for which we called for him to arrive. So instead of charging us for the five minutes that we were late, we get charged for fifteen minutes because he was ten minutes early. THEN… Well first let me explain that I had largely memorized the map of central Paris, and overall have a good sense of direction. So as the taxi driver drives us to the restaurant we are headed to, I knew the route he is taking. He went beyond taking a big U to get there, but almost doing a full O, making the biggest round-about path one ever could without crossing the Seine. And there wasn’t a darn thing we could do… We just merrily paid, and put it down as another day in gay Paris. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/26 "2006-11-22T15:54:33Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] **chowder** , my insular friend, that is the practice in France - you pay more depending where you’re sitting. When you order you’re meant to tell them where you’re going to sit and they adjust the bill accordingly. If you didn’t tell him where you were sitting, he probably charged you the lowest price, then had to adjust. Anyway, I’ve been to France many times, always on the lookout for the stereotype, and have only found it a couple of times, and then only in Paris. As to the OP - IMO it’s rude not to acknowledge someone in a service capacity, but ruder admonish someone for the oversight. [/QUOTE] **jjimm** my -erm- friend, not being fluent or even close to it in French, none of use could tell the guy where we intended sitting. But how could he charge for the view of Notre Dame anyway, he didn’t build the dame (intended) place . Also, before the guy deigned to serve us he finished his game of cards and left us waiting about 5 minutes. Au revoir mon ami, joi de vivre, la plume le ma tante …or summat 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gredbioz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6a8cbe/32.png) [@gredbioz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gredbioz)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/27 "2006-11-22T16:02:43Z")
You know the customary things to say in that situation? “Au Revoir.” et “Pas des Euro pour tu.” ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/28 "2006-11-22T16:31:23Z")
[QUOTE=matt\_mcl] She was right about the custom to observe, but as far as I know, it’s as rude (and foolish) to upbraid your customers in France as it is in the US or Canada. [/QUOTE] I agree. Also, it’s clear from the OP that she a) could tell they were foreign; and b) knew perfectly well that the protocol in this situation is different in other countries, in which case it is both impolite and extremely silly for her to assume deliberate rudeness on their part. ---
**Author:** ![Themenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ee59a6/32.png) [@Themenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Themenin)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/29 "2006-11-22T19:28:45Z")
Regarding **Sage Rat** ’s taxicab experience - that’s basically SOP. If you call a cab in Paris, the meter starts running from the moment you place the call - the drive to come pick you up is considered to be part of the fare. As a result it can be a lot cheaper to hail a cab directly in the street. As for the ‘scenic route’ treatment, it’s possible, but the cabs here have an incentive to keep the ride short, as there is a fixed ‘pick-up charge’ included in the fare which you pay regardless of the distance. ie a lot of short fares is more profitable than one long fare. The exception to this is airport runs, where there’s a special surcharge outside the city, and in theory they can also charge extra for suitcases. As already mentioned by **jjimm** charging extra for table service and ‘en terrace’ is also SOP. Getting back to the OP, In France the ‘saying hi’ routine doesn’t really apply to sales/service situations (especially in Paris). You might even find that some cashiers, barmen etc think you’re a little strange if you try to chat with them. Are you sure you and the tobacconist understood each other correctly ? Buying cigarettes typically involves standing in front of the counter for 5 minutes being ignored, and when the clerk finally turns to you, he/she may not even speak, preferring a simple eyebrow raise. You can say _bonjour_ if you need to get their attention, but won’t necessarily get a response Thank-you and good-bye are often abbreviated to _voilà_ - a kind of all-purpose ‘here you go’ / ‘that’s it’. No smiles should be exchanged during this process. Maybe the tobacconist thought you were a regular ? Parisians can indeed come across as a surly bunch, talking to strangers is a little bit of a no-no, and even excessive and unwarranted smiling can be regarded with suspicion. Despite this apparent unfriendliness, Parisians can still be sticklers for protocol, men are supposed to shake hands all around when arriving in a new place, women are supposed to kiss everyone (this includes people you don’t actually like). You’ll even hear some older people calling each other _Monsieur_ (sir) when fighting over a slight in the Metro - _Monsieur, je vous interdit de me tutoyer ! Veuillez me parler sur un autre ton !_ There was a recent advertising campaign for a newspaper called _Le Parisien_, where you’d see a tight-mouthed Parisian committing various acts of rudeness, and the tagline was _Le Parisien, mieux vaut l’avoir en journal_ - something like ‘The Parisian, it’s better when it’s a newspaper’. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/30 "2006-11-23T07:03:30Z")
I don’t believe you were rude at all. However, it’s best to err on the side of deference when dealing with other cultures. I work for an international corporation and Americans do have a reputation for being bulls in the china shop in the diplomacy department. If you’re not sure what the customary greeting is, I’ve found that a universally acceptable greeting is to smile and give a short bow. The shopkeeper could certainly learn a few lessons in diplomacy. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/31 "2006-11-23T11:15:48Z")
[QUOTE=Martiju] While I agree that on this occasion, she had some prejudice that led her to be rude, I’ve never found that to be the general rule in France. [/QUOTE] Exactly my experience. I’ve been here for just under a month now, living and working just outside Paris, and going into Paris every weekend, and have had exactly zero people be rude to me. I’ll be the first to confess that my French isn’t stellar, but even when I went into a PC shop in Paris, and into a mobile phone shop there, and couldn’t 100% articulate exactly what I wanted in French without the aid of gestures and a phrasebook, not one single person was rude to me. In fact, on the contrary, they were polite, lovely and helpful. Maybe I’m just good at looking apologetic and embarrassed by my lack of fluency in French? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/32 "2006-11-23T11:36:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, one day I was walking along the Seine and remembered that I had a bunch of postcards in my backpack that I needed to mail. So, I walked up to the nearest Tobacco shop and spied a sour looking older lady behind the counter. I stood in line until the man in front of me got his smokes. When it was my turn, I asked the lady in my best broken French if I could have 10 stamps for postcards to the USA. Well, she immediately scolded me and said (in English), “in THIS country we say “bon jour” first and “how are you” before conducting business”……”you are very rude”. After she said this to me, I asked her if she considered herself rude for admonishing a complete stranger in front of other customers. She had no reply. You should have apologized and made amends by offering some additional favor to the woman. Perhaps you could have told her you would be traveling in Germany next week and offered to deliver a personal message to her father. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/33 "2006-11-23T15:22:06Z")
The lady was pretty rude to call you out. But it is always nice to treat people behind the counter like they are human. It gets really depressing spending all day with people treating you like an extention of the cash register. You would greet your lawyer or your children’s teachers when you saw them. There is no reason to treat the counter jokey any different. You’d be surprised at how big of a difference a little human kindness can make to someone working a crappy job. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2006, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/34 "2006-11-24T23:11:50Z")
I’ve been on holiday all over Europe. Based on that, the Parisians were the only rude ones, even though I always tried to speak French. Holland, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Luxemburg, Croatia, Slovakia, Hungary, Russia - no problem with taxis, shops, hotels at all. And they all spoke English. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2006, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/35 "2006-11-25T03:30:23Z")
I am a cashier, and, unless occupied with another customer, always say “Good Morning,” “Howdy,” or some such greeting. Perhaps 60% of customers respond, and if they don’t oh, well, I let it go. Joe ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324/36 "2006-11-27T20:12:27Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] My friends and I bought beers at a bar close to Notre Dame, when we took them outside the bartender tried to charge us extra for… 1. Sitting down. 2. The View. [/QUOTE] They charged you to play it or to turn it off? [The View](http://abc.go.com/daytime/theview/index.html) [quote=Rigamarole] A waste of how much time? It’s just a simple acknowledgement of a person’s existence. You are not entitled to stamps or anything else in this world - once you learn that, a simple “Hi” to people you come across and have transactions with makes sense. Heh. I think I’m entitled when I present money to someone purporting to sell things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-i-an-ugly-rude-american-in-paris/381324.md?page=1)