# Was it a False Flag attack by a couple of IRS employes to lead to mainstream Tax Revolt **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2013, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850 "2013-06-01T10:16:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/221 "2013-06-06T15:49:53Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I see no facts. QFT. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/222 "2013-06-06T16:01:33Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Ah, so you meant “two people have been disciplined to date for their participation”. > > But that’s not what you wrote, you wrote that it “_must be_ a couple of bureaucrats”. (emphasis mine). Hey, wait, that’s bending the truth! > > You also wrote: > > “May have been”? We are waaaay past “may have been”, the IRS has admitted doing this and apologized for it. Saying “may have been” is, guess what? Bending the truth. > > And this is just off the first page, and without getting into the conspiracy theory. This is your idea of bending the truth equivalent to Bill O stating the IRS Commissioner went to the White House 157 times when he went eleven times to convince an audience that so many times was improper. Bill O did not use the word may. My use of that word does not negate the possibilty that targeting did in fact happen, and I did not use it with any intent to decieve. You are really grasping. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/223 "2013-06-06T16:03:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > QFT. > > Regards, > Shodan Which means? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/224 "2013-06-06T16:17:07Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Which means? Quoted For Truth. It means I agree with the statement. You don’t see any facts. At all. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/225 "2013-06-06T16:18:10Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > This is your idea of bending the truth equivalent to Bill O stating the IRS Commissioner went to the White House 157 times when he went eleven times to convince an audience that so many times was improper. > > Bill O did not use the word may. A difference of degree, not kind. This is just you moving the goalposts again, from “I didn’t bend the truth!” to “I didn’t bend it as much as this other guy.” > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > My use of that word does not negate the possibilty that targeting did in fact happen, and I did not use it with any intent to decieve. The “possibility” that it happened is no longer in question. What was your intent, then, if not to cast doubt on or minimize what happened? > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > You are really grasping. You are really amusing. And how about that “must be”, eh? You neglected to explain that one. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/226 "2013-06-06T16:43:26Z")
“A difference of degree, not kind. This is just you moving the goalposts again, from “I didn’t bend the truth!” to “I didn’t bend it as much as this other guy.”” -Human Action Go back to the origination of this particular discussion. You charged that my, “response is equal and opposite”… The goal post is right where you set it: “Your response is equal and opposite to those whom you are criticizing. They are bending the truth to make this scandal seem worse than it is, you are bending the truth to make it seem less important than it is.” -Originally Posted by Human Action ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/227 "2013-06-06T16:45:47Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > “A difference of degree, not kind. This is just you moving the goalposts again, from “I didn’t bend the truth!” to “I didn’t bend it as much as this other guy.”” -Human Action > Go back to the origination of this particular discussion. > > You charged that my, “response is equal and opposite”… > > The goal post is right where you set it: > > “Your response is equal and opposite to those whom you are criticizing. They are bending the truth to make this scandal seem worse than it is, you are bending the truth to make it seem less important than it is.” -Originally Posted by Human Action I then proceeded to demonstrate how you are, in fact, bending the truth to make the scandal seem less important or severe than it is. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/228 "2013-06-06T16:49:14Z")
Remember a few posts ago, when you wrote: > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > The point is I did not ‘bend the truth’ as you said I did. So, are you abandoning that claim, and admitting that you _did_ bend the truth, just less so than Bill O’Reilly? ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/229 "2013-06-06T17:03:46Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > The point is I did not ‘bend the truth’ as you said I did. > > Do you have any other truth bending charges against me? > I stand by my statement as the best understanding of what we know to date. Two people were disciplined for some participation in the mistake. > > Do you have a higher number of employees guilty enough to have been reported as disciplined? First of all, more than 2 IRS employees have been disciplined. As I pointed out above, the acting head of the IRS (Steve Miller) was asked to resign, and the head of the IRS’s exempt organizations section (Lois Lerner) has been placed on administrative leave. Moreover, the fact that more people have not been found guilty is not a reason to suspend an investigation. That’s kind of the point of investigations. To figure out who did what, and whether to punish them. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/230 "2013-06-06T17:07:25Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > The “possibility” that it happened is no longer in question. What was your intent, then, if not to cast doubt on or minimize what happened? If you look at the quote where I used ‘may’ it was about the other mistake the IRS makes when they approve these political groups tax exempt status which is not in accordance with the actual law. I see you read it but have not responded other than to nitpick about the use of the word may. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/231 "2013-06-06T17:14:16Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > If you look at the quote where I used ‘may’ it was about the other mistake the IRS makes when they approve these political groups tax exempt status which is not in accordance with the actual law. > > I see you read it but have not responded other than to nitpick about the use of the word may. Eh? No, it wasn’t. Here is the entire post, #44: > [@Telemark](#): > > Anyone would be upset to be informed that the IRS singled them out for additional investigation because of their political beliefs. Most people on both sides of the aisle are upset. There’s a reason it’s against the law to do so. > > > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > > > That is not what happened. Groups applying for tax free status may have been singled out on a basis of key words that signify a strong relationship with partisan politics which is not entitled to tax free status. > > > > Individuals were not targeted for personal income tax compliance because if individual political beliefs or activities > > > > We see how far the right wing myth has permeated all thought and opinion on this issue Back on point, do you maintain as you have that: > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I did not ‘bend the truth’ as you said I did. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/232 "2013-06-06T17:28:48Z")
> [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](#): > > First of all, more than 2 IRS employees have been disciplined. As I pointed out above, the acting head of the IRS (Steve Miller) was asked to resign, and the head of the IRS’s exempt organizations section (Lois Lerner) has been placed on administrative leave. > > Moreover, the fact that more people have not been found guilty is not a reason to suspend an investigation. That’s kind of the point of investigations. To figure out who did what, and whether to punish them. Miller has been head of IRS only since November. He had nothing to do with the original mistake. He was a political appointee, not unusual to leave abruptly for a new face. Administrative leave with pay is not exactly punishment. I did not bend the truth when I said a couple made a mistake did I? I have not called for an end to the investigation. Just would like to see the end of RW lies going on in parallel. And I want a full scale investigation into why the law was broken every time a political group gets tax free status when the law actual law states that they must be exclusively working on social welfare and no politics. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/233 "2013-06-06T17:34:34Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Eh? No, it wasn’t. Here is the entire post, #44: > > Back on point, do you maintain as you have that: No I made a mistake and stand corrected. When did this truth bending take place? I make mistakes now and then but I own up to it. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/234 "2013-06-06T17:41:56Z")
I didn’t know jokes were allowed in GD! ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/235 "2013-06-06T17:43:50Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > No I made a mistake and stand corrected. When did this truth bending take place? Look at post #219. I gave you two clear examples. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I make mistakes now and then but I own up to it. Here’s your chance. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/236 "2013-06-06T19:22:50Z")
I already did own up to it. Your examples don’t come close to bending the truth and you must know that referring to a couple or a few IRS employees in all the manners that I did was not bending the truth. I forgot how ridiculous you can get when you’ve been called out on something. Why did you forget that you set the goal posts? Was that a mistake to forget that? What about your claim that Obama agreed with John Mace that admitting a mistake makes the mistake a scandal? That is supported by nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/237 "2013-06-06T19:56:14Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I forgot how ridiculous you can get when you’ve been called out on something. Yes. **Human Action** is the one being ridiculous. Tell me more about how Steve Miller’s forced resignation was just typical overturn for political appointments, completely disconnected from the IRS scandals. And how being placed in administrative leave is not a punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/238 "2013-06-06T19:58:35Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I already did own up to it. What is “it”, exactly? What mistake did you own up to? > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Your examples don’t come close to bending the truth and you must know that referring to a couple or a few IRS employees in all the manners that I did was not bending the truth. Really, they don’t? It _must be_ the work of two IRS agents? Groups applying for tax free status _may have been_ singled out on a basis of key words? > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I forgot how ridiculous you can get when you’ve been called out on something. Ha! This makes all this worthwhile. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Why did you forget that you set the goal posts? Was that a mistake to forget that? Ah, you never disappoint. My goal posts were that you were engaged in the same behavior as those you condemned, bending the truth and manufacturing conspiracy theories. When you denied bending the truth, I had to reread about 4 posts before showing you where you had done so. At that time, you went from “I did not ‘bend the truth’ as you said I did” to “This is your idea of bending the truth equivalent to Bill O…”, with the idea that I’d called you a liar thrown in for the signature **NotfooledbyW** touch. Yes, you were bending the truth, as O’Reilly et al do. Own it. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > What about your claim that Obama agreed with John Mace that admitting a mistake makes the mistake a scandal? That is supported by nothing. What do you think makes something a scandal? You brushed off the dictionary definition, and major (left-leaning, at that) news outlets using the term. What criteria must be met before you will allow that something is a scandal? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/239 "2013-06-06T21:50:36Z")
Yes, you were bending the truth, as O’Reilly et al do. Own it. -Human Action, You have no credibilty to level such an outlandish claim and back up with such trivial examples of what you think bending the truth should. I back up calling O’Reilly a liar with an actual outright lie that is not in dispute. You equivocate that with a mushy point about the use of the word ‘may’ in a non-inflammatory statement that I made. And you can’t discount how correct I am to quote the former IRS Chief on the number of employees that made a mistake. All we get is your quibbling about a couple of word choices. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/240 "2013-06-06T22:01:13Z")
O’Reilly is a liar. he is not simply bending the truth. OReilly stated as fact that there were 157 visits to the White House by the IRS Director. There were 11 over three years and one was to bring his kids to the Easter Egg Hunt. Other times we don’t even know if he met with Obama Some scandal fodder eh! Meanwhile I am labeled a truth bender (I guess that is not technically a full blown liar like O’Reilly) but in Human Action’'s rationale my reference to testimony given in the US House makes me equal in comparison to what O’Reilly did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850.md?page=13)