# Was it a False Flag attack by a couple of IRS employes to lead to mainstream Tax Revolt **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2013, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850 "2013-06-01T10:16:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/361 "2013-06-17T00:56:39Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The problem is, that’s kind of true. There have been worse scandals in U.S. history which blew over and were forgotten. There have been other trivial scandals that have had greater consequences. (Congressman Anthony Weiner’s resignation because of naughty phone messages. Come awn!) > > The public consciousness is quirky. We’re easily distracted by side-issues. We’ll spend millions of dollars to rescue a little girl from a well – and resent paying five dollars to give a little girl a healthy school lunch. We are not a rational species. > > So, yeah: what is or is not a scandal depends a lot on public perception, and that is subject to manipulation, but is also hugely random. Look at how hard the Republicans tried to make Benghazi into an impeachment-level scandal. It simply isn’t a hard science. I don’t doubt that any of what JM and HA say about the mob labeling something a scandal is true. Your point brings up a new question that we ought to discuss. Benghazi. I wonder if HA and JM think that is a scandal somehow. Lots of people call it a scandal but perhaps there’s too many who think for themselves on it and don’t go along with the scandal label. I don’t think there’s a scandal in what happened at Benghazi or that Susan Rice and the Obama Admin suppressed mention of ‘terrorist’ to steal the election from Romney and the Republicans. So I wonder if HA and JM refer to the Benghazi events as some kind of scandal too. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/362 "2013-06-17T01:14:33Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I don’t doubt that any of what JM and HA say about the mob labeling something a scandal is true. > > Your point brings up a new question that we ought to discuss. Benghazi. > > I wonder if HA and JM think that is a scandal somehow. You should start a thread about that. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/363 "2013-06-17T01:25:09Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > So many here were wrong to discount any notion that it could be a false flag operation by just a couple employees at some sub-level within the IRS. No one was wrong to discount your CT. It was silly when you proposed it. It remains silly, now. Challenging the story that first appeared was fine and legitimate. Proposing an alternative that required super sekrit plots and really bad timing on the parts of the plotters was dumb. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/364 "2013-06-17T01:26:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You should start a thread about that. I dunno. We really don’t need a thread “asking” whether the Benghazi consulate was really attacked by agents of the Far Right for the purpose of embarrassing the administration. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/365 "2013-06-17T02:07:19Z")
“Scandal” and “mistake” are like “republic” and “democracy”. They could both apply, or either, or neither. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/366 "2013-06-17T02:16:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I dunno. We really don’t need a thread “asking” whether the Benghazi consulate was really attacked by agents of the Far Right for the purpose of embarrassing the administration. It’s just a question. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/367 "2013-06-17T02:27:11Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I dunno. We really don’t need a thread “asking” whether the Benghazi consulate was really attacked by agents of the Far Right for the purpose of embarrassing the administration. Well, I suppose we could start a thread arguing whether Al Qaeda is a right-wing or left-wing organization and if the answer is the former then we might have an answer to your question. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/368 "2013-06-17T03:30:04Z")
So John, is Benghazi a ‘scandal’ or not. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/369 "2013-06-17T03:44:41Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > on 06-02-2013 at10:26 AM #47 You yourself are convinced that the IRS as a whole abused its authority. Why not draw the line at it was a mistake by very few employees in a large organization perhaps caused by lack of clarity on tax exempt rules? Why feed the “abuse of authority” myth that is going around? I asked you that prior to finding out one Republican manager may be responsible for the “MISTAKE” along with an underling. If that is true, then it was not politically motivated’ and was not an ‘abuse of power’ the Way Republicans / Tea Partiers wanted you to believe in their CT and that it is most definitely was an IRS abuse of power scandal. Why did you feed the scandal CT by calling it a scandal, when it appears it actually was a mistake made by a Republican no less? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/370 "2013-06-17T03:45:26Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > So John, is Benghazi a ‘scandal’ or not. Yes…but it’s the Republicans who denied extra security funding to the State Department who are scandalous. (Okay, yes, there was also blame to be found within the State Department.) The scandal is also how the House investigating committees have been so very blatantly partisan. That’s called “waving the bloody shirt” and it’s…a scandal. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/371 "2013-06-17T03:50:36Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > “Scandal” and “mistake” are like “republic” and “democracy”. They could both apply, or either, or neither. Then why was I accused of ignoring reality when I call the IRS issue what I only clearly knew what it was… early on - “a mistake” when so many hear had jumped on the ‘scandal’ bandwagon right winger CT’s. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/372 "2013-06-17T04:01:46Z")
Perhaps the accuser was confused and meant to suggest you were ignoring reality on any of several other matters. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/373 "2013-06-17T05:15:24Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > So John, is Benghazi a ‘scandal’ or not. Off topic in this thread. This thread is about False Flags at the IRS. Start a new thread if you want to discuss another topic. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/374 "2013-06-17T05:38:59Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I question why you agree with the sheeple I suggest that if you don’t want people to consider you a CTer, you should drop using CTer lingo/codewords. Dropping the word “sheeple” in an accusatory manner towards someone with whom you have a disagreement is a mighty fine indicator that you are, in fact, a CTer. Just for fun, you may now accuse me of not knowing much about language. That’ll be yet another riot. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/375 "2013-06-17T12:45:13Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > You didn’t answer if one American needs to label something a scandal or if it takes a certain number from the population. And if it takes more than one, who decides when there’s enough to change the label from mistake to scandal? That’s a ridiculous question. How many people does it take to make something “popular”? Who decides what can be labeled “popular”? And again, there’s no hierarchy that goes from “mistake” to “scandal”. The terms are not mutually exclusive. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > You need to tell me at which point it was that you began following the crowd and started calling the mistake a scandal, so I can learn to understand reality in the way that you do. It’s quite clear that you have your own personal definition of “scandal”, and perhaps “mistake” as well. You use it like a legal term, as though there’s some objective process like a criminal trial that affixes the label. This is why there’s such a disconnect between you and other posters on this thread (that, and the fake-CT / rhetorical device OP, and your hysterical focus on people attacking and persecuting you). You aren’t speaking the same language. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/376 "2013-06-17T14:41:53Z")
The real scandal is that some mod hasn’t closed this thread yet. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/377 "2013-06-17T16:18:59Z")
Or is it just… a mistake?! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/378 "2013-06-17T16:24:06Z")
Depends on who’s definition of ‘scandal’ and ‘mistake’ we are using, obviously. It COULD be a vast CT involving the mods, the US government and an intrepid group of mutant, ravenous Belgian space weasels…you know, that old chestnut…bent on conquering the world, however. You can never rule that out… ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/379 "2013-06-17T17:18:44Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > It’s quite clear that you have your own personal definition of “scandal”, and perhaps “mistake” as well. My definition of a scandal is no different than anyone else’s. What I see is scandal mongering gone wild. Is the ‘scandal mongering’ under discussion popular because a couple of employees made a mistake or because their mistake gives popular momentum to mass fear and loathing of the IRS abusing its power for political purposes. There has been no evidence that the IRS engageged in intentional political targeting that favors the Democratic Party. But we now have a scandal because that anger has aroused the mob into thinking that abuse of power must be true. So we have a scandal without evidence and based solely on mob anger. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850/380 "2013-06-17T17:23:04Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > My definition of a scandal is no different than anyone else’s. > > What I see is scandal mongering gone wild. > > Is the ‘scandal mongering’ under discussion popular because a couple of employees made a mistake or because their mistake gives popular momentum to mass fear and loathing of the IRS abusing its power for political purposes. > > There has been no evidence that the IRS engageged in intentional political targeting that favors the Democratic Party. > > But we now have a scandal because that anger has aroused the mob into thinking that abuse of power must be true. > > So we have a scandal without evidence and based solely on mob anger. No [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-a-false-flag-attack-by-a-couple-of-irs-employes-to-lead-to-mainstream-tax-revolt/659850.md?page=20)