# Was It All An Accident...Or Did An Intelligent **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721 "2013-01-19T17:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/1 "2013-01-19T17:18:17Z")
Being Start the Ball Rolling. Here’s the problem…if the Universe just developed in an evolutionary manner and let’s say it just happened randomly, then the thoughts of agnostics and atheists are just random thoughts and have little or no validity. On the other hand, if there’s a logical source (for convenience called God), that started the ball rolling then the thoughts of agnostics and atheists may have some validity. Of course, my bias is towards God starting the ball rolling… ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/2 "2013-01-19T17:26:08Z")
ETA: Eh, on second thought never mind. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/3 "2013-01-19T17:27:08Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > What? It’s a metaphor - just roll with it. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/4 "2013-01-19T17:31:18Z")
> [@simster](#): > > It’s a metaphor - just roll with it. You got it. I’ve become too predictable. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/5 "2013-01-19T17:31:59Z")
Umm, what? That makes no sense at all. Personally I’m essentially a heathen. Not _quite_ atheist, because I believe there are minor sources of power (spirits, if you will) around us that can influence small things around them, if they choose to. I do not believe in an all powerful omnipotent god who monitors every little thing in this world. Nor do I believe that that same omnipotent being created this world. The Bible I feel is interesting historical fiction based on one very persuasive & captivating man. Or possibly several men. To my mind THE biggest miracle of all is that all of this just happened. That there was no divine interference, no waving of hands or Let There Be’s. It just…evolved. And we have all this loveliness, and the horrors, just because of random pairings of chemicals, and perhaps a little help from meteoric particles. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/6 "2013-01-19T17:33:26Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Being Start the Ball Rolling. Here’s the problem…if the Universe just developed in an evolutionary manner and let’s say it just happened randomly, then the thoughts of agnostics and atheists are just random thoughts and have little or no validity. So much to correct, and it’s only the first paragraph. 1. Evolution deals with the progression of life once it is established, not with the state of the universe. 2. There is nothing random about either the progression of the universe, or about evolution, _and please remember that these are two different subjects._ 3. There isn’t much “random” about the thought processes of atheists, agnostics, or religionists. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/7 "2013-01-19T17:35:46Z")
Drat. I should have looked at his posting history before replying. I’ve just wasted my time, I daresay. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/8 "2013-01-19T17:36:50Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > …if the Universe just developed in an evolutionary manner and let’s say it just happened randomly, then the thoughts of agnostics and atheists are just random thoughts and have little or no validity. …and if the Universe just happened randomly, then the thoughts of believers are just random thoughts of deluded people and have _absolutely_ no validity. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/9 "2013-01-19T17:37:57Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Here’s the problem…if the Universe just developed in an evolutionary manner and let’s say it just happened randomly, then the thoughts of agnostics and atheists are just random thoughts and have little or no validity. Why? Most thoughts are not random: they are analyses of physical observations. Most of the rest are planning and abstractions about the physical world. Let’s say that an intelligent _did_ get the ball rolling. How would that make thoughts any more valid than an exactly similar one in which an intelligent _didn’t_ get the ball rolling? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/10 "2013-01-19T17:39:21Z")
The OP is ridiculous. To paraphrase Gertrude Stein, there is no here here. Or, a rolling thread gathers no intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/11 "2013-01-19T17:44:50Z")
I wonder if the OP’s dwelling on “randomness” is based on the type of Sunday School teaching I got as a tyke: If the universe is put together randomly, then there is no reason whatsoever that all our atoms couldn’t suddenly fly off in all directions! It was a stupid scare tactic used to keep youngsters from straying. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/12 "2013-01-19T18:05:05Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Being Start the Ball Rolling. Here’s the problem…if the Universe just developed in an evolutionary manner and let’s say it just happened randomly, then the thoughts of agnostics and atheists are just random thoughts and have little or no validity. > > On the other hand, if there’s a logical source (for convenience called God), that started the ball rolling then the thoughts of agnostics and atheists may have some validity. Of course, my bias is towards God starting the ball rolling… So…if agnostics and atheists are right, and the universe was an accident, and that’s what they believe, those beliefs are…invalid? And if there is a god that created the circumstances in which agnostics and atheists disbelieve him, that’s…valid? Does god mention anything about a train of logic that derails at the station? ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/13 "2013-01-19T18:14:35Z")
I’m purely agnostic as to whether or not there is a God (whatever that means), however I still have a hard time wrapping my head around the question of “what came before” - human experience seems to demand that an effect has a cause, so what caused the “big bang” or brane collision or whatever. Even with the idea of a God, there is always the “so who made God” issue to deal with. In short - how can we say that the univers(es) just “always were”? It defies normal human understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/14 "2013-01-19T18:21:15Z")
God is a bowler. And She is a lefty, too. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/15 "2013-01-19T18:21:54Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > So…if agnostics and atheists are right, and the universe was an accident, and that’s what they believe, those beliefs are…invalid? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/16 "2013-01-19T18:24:20Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Yes. Congratulations. You’ve convinced me that it _is_ possible for a person’s thoughts to be truly random. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/17 "2013-01-19T18:25:35Z")
Well, his name does say as much… ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/18 "2013-01-19T18:38:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Congratulations. You’ve convinced me that it _is_ possible for a person’s thoughts to be truly random. If they are then that is evidence that God does not exist. Do you truly believe that? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/19 "2013-01-19T18:43:33Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > If they are then that is evidence that God does not exist. Do you truly believe that? As a great woosh is felt overhead, as if the U.S.A.F. Thunderbirds just passed over at 100 ft., I’ll leave you with my signature: ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/20 "2013-01-19T18:57:06Z")
I know one thing. I don’t think this thread was intelligently designed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721.md?page=2)