# Was It All An Accident...Or Did An Intelligent **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721 "2013-01-19T17:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/201 "2013-01-24T15:08:55Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > God is outside that system and says everything is forming a pretty pattern, it’s all going according to plan. Who speaks for god? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/202 "2013-01-24T15:13:53Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > You may think this is a warped argument, but by now I’m sure your starting to get use to some of my crazy arguments. There’s really no predicting how you are going to change the topic next. Could we go back to your understanding of atheists? [QUOTE=] Atheists are a real world example of a system (an individual) that sees their own thoughts as being orderly. [/QUOTE] Doesn’t everyone see his/her thoughts as orderly? Again, you’re saying ‘atheists do this’ when everybody does it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/203 "2013-01-24T15:22:19Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Who speaks for god? The Metatron, of course. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/204 "2013-01-24T15:28:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There’s really no predicting how you are going to change the topic next. Could we go back to your understanding of atheists? Actually, I’m glad I’ve started posting on SDMB, I’ve found out a lot about atheists that I didn’t know before. But I still believe that the scientific method has limitations. Going back to the metaphor, can you imagine the grain of sand experimenting and testing to see whether they are going to grow into a crystal? With that approach they would never get the big picture that God sees. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/205 "2013-01-24T15:29:03Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The Metatron, of course. I prefer the Autobots, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/206 "2013-01-24T15:32:37Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Actually, I’m glad I’ve started posting on SDMB, I’ve found out a lot about atheists that I didn’t know before. Let’s stick with this just a bit more, o.k.? _What_ exactly have you learned about atheists, and could you please give us your updated definition of “atheism”? ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/207 "2013-01-24T15:37:45Z")
In regards to the ‘atheists mad at God’ angle, I’ll redirect the OP to my question in post 162: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15929519&postcount=162](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15929519&postcount=162) I’d be interested in the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/208 "2013-01-24T15:40:26Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > But I still believe that the scientific method has limitations. Going back to the metaphor, can you imagine the grain of sand experimenting and testing to see whether they are going to grow into a crystal? With that approach they would never get the big picture that God sees. I don’t think this metaphor makes sense, so I am not going to argue about it. Whatever flaws our brains may have, there’s no inherent reason we can’t use them to understand the universe. I also don’t have any doubt that methodical testing and observation is a more reliable way to understand the universe than received wisdom and ancient traditions and guesswork. Those things _also_ come from human brains and they don’t have a method to keep our flaws in check. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/209 "2013-01-24T15:41:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let’s stick with this just a bit more, o.k.? _What_ exactly have you learned about atheists, and could you please give us your updated definition of “atheism”? Apparently atheists believe that they have insufficient information to conclude that God exists. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/210 "2013-01-24T15:44:16Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Apparently atheists believe that they have insufficient information to conclude that God exists. No-that’s agnosticism. Read this thread and try again, please. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/211 "2013-01-24T15:48:03Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Who speaks for god? God speaks for Himself, through the Bible, miracles, and by answering prayers. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/212 "2013-01-24T15:53:41Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > God speaks for Himself, through the Bible God speaks for himself through texts written by people? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/213 "2013-01-24T15:55:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > God speaks for himself through texts written by people? Yes. The Bible was written by people inspired by the Holy Spirit. To me the Holy Spirit is man’s link to God. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/214 "2013-01-24T16:04:49Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Yes. The Bible was written by people inspired by the Holy Spirit. To me the Holy Spirit is man’s link to God. That’s not speaking for yourself. It’s speaking through other people - doubly so if the text is divinely inspired as opposed to divinely dictated. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/215 "2013-01-24T16:07:09Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Yes. The Bible was written by people inspired by the Holy Spirit. To me the Holy Spirit is man’s link to God. Unless you are an incredibly gifted linguist, the version of the Bible you are currently reading (and any other version you read growing up, if it’s different) is a translation of several texts written hundreds of years apart in several different languages. What’s worse, it’s not the only translation. While the general gist of different translations are the same, there are significant differences in detail. Worse yet, there are translations into other modern languages and, by inherent difficulties in _any_ translation, none can fully capture the intent of the original writers. So, even if we posit the existence of some kind of divinely inspired ‘prototypical’ Bible, we have several different manifestations of the Bible in any given modern language, each of which is flawed in a human way, meaning if God IS speaking through the Bible, the message is guaranteed to be partially garbled in translation. Also, it looks like you don’t have a good handle on atheism vs agnosticism, yet. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/216 "2013-01-24T16:08:45Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > The Bible was written by people inspired by the Holy Spirit. How do I know this? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/217 "2013-01-24T16:11:53Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > God speaks for Himself, through the Bible, miracles, and by answering prayers. Nope. The Holy Spirit wrote the [Bhagavad Gita.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita) You’re hitching your wagon to the wrong star. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/218 "2013-01-24T16:12:08Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > Questions for the OP, do you believe in a real live flesh and blood Santa Claus? Did you when you were young? What made you stop? I always thought Santa Claus was just for fun. That’s also how I present it to my nephews and nieces. The existence of God has been a serious issue for thousands of years and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/219 "2013-01-24T16:18:18Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > But I still believe that the scientific method has limitations. Luckily for us, the scientific method is well aware of its limitations. It doesn’t try to explain what happened before the Big Bang, it doesn’t try to tell people they shouldn’t love someone of their own gender, and it constantly tests itself against the sum of human knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/220 "2013-01-24T16:22:08Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > > [@White SIFL](#): > > > > Questions for the OP, do you believe in a real live flesh and blood Santa Claus? Did you when you were young? What made you stop? > > I always thought Santa Claus was just for fun. That’s also how I present it to my nephews and nieces. > > The existence of God has been a serious issue for thousands of years and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. And your updated definition of “atheism” is…? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721.md?page=12)