# Was It All An Accident...Or Did An Intelligent **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721 "2013-01-19T17:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/281 "2013-01-25T01:16:03Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I agree with you to a certain extent, science does work when you are trying to design a better smart-phone. > > But it doesn’t work, when it comes to answering the most important questions of life, because we cannot reproduce the experiment. Science most certainly helps answer many of the most important questions, simply because it allows us to figure out what works and what doesn’t and what the results of our actions are and will be. And others it has solved partially or completely, so we don’t really think of them as “the most important questions in life” anymore. And regardless of whether or not science can answer a question, that doesn’t mean _religion_ can. Religion is intellectually sterile, incapable of providing meaningful answers to anything. > [@pchaos](#): > > An example would be trying to decide whether you should charge up the hill into machine gun fire with fellow marines or just lay back and watch for a while. If you lay back and watch maybe the enemy will run out of bullets and then you can walk up the hill. > > How would you reproduce that type of experiment? :rolleyes: The answer to that question is “if you don’t, you’ll be imprisoned and possibly executed by your own side”. And of course it can be repeated; it has been repeated thousands of times since the invention of machine guns. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/282 "2013-01-25T01:21:24Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > :rolleyes: The answer to that question is “if you don’t, you’ll be imprisoned and possibly executed by your own side”. And of course it can be repeated; it has been repeated thousands of times since the invention of machine guns. But if the enemy runs out of bullets, you can walk leisurely up the hill and you would be alive…so what would you do? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/283 "2013-01-25T01:21:45Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I suppose the point of this thread was to see if there was a different vantage point which would allow us to resolve some of the differences of opinion between those that believe that God exists and those that don’t. Some of the finest thinkers in history have tried to do that. While they didn’t succeed, you should really take it on yourself to read their stuff. At the very least, most don’t make the same simple mistakes in logic you’ve been making. And many had a healthy respect for finding the physical principles the universe runs on. A few off the top of my head: Blaise Pascal, St Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Thomas Jefferson, Isaac Newton (actually, he’s kind of weird, but interesting to read, anyway), Rene Descartes, and Spinoza. > [@pchaos](#): > > But if the enemy runs out of bullets, you can walk leisurely up the hill and you would be alive…so what would you do? Missed this on review. 1. This isn’t an experiment and you haven’t explained the purpose. 2. I’m doubling down on the suggestion to read old philosophers. This is hardly new territory you’re treading. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/284 "2013-01-25T01:36:48Z")
[QUOTE=pchaos] An example would be trying to decide whether you should charge up the hill into machine gun fire with fellow marines or just lay back and watch for a while. If you lay back and watch maybe the enemy will run out of bullets and then you can walk up the hill. [/QUOTE] Why would we need to reproduce this ‘experiment’?? We have mountains of historical data about such things. Some people charge the hill. Others go up cautiously. Still others refuse to go up at all. What does this prove? Absolutely nothing concerning God or the gods, and something about human nature. > [@](#): > > How would you reproduce that type of experiment? Um, simply have a war and record the results? Again, what do you think you are proving here? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/285 "2013-01-25T01:39:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That really isn’t an experiment in the first place. True. What I’m saying is that with the most important questions of life, science is useless because it isn’t possible to experiment. For instance, if you ran up the hill and got killed with the rest of marines. Nobody benefits. You can’t then go backwards in time and wait to see if laying back and waiting would have produced better results. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/286 "2013-01-25T01:41:22Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > True. What I’m saying is that with the most important questions of life, science is useless because it isn’t possible to experiment. You have once again started from the wrong premise, misapplied it, and managed to draw the wrong conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/287 "2013-01-25T01:41:53Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > True. What I’m saying is that with the most important questions of life, science is useless because it isn’t possible to experiment. For instance, if you ran up the hill and got killed with the rest of marines. Nobody benefits. Quite likely the people who sent you do. And again, you are simply wrong; science has proven itself useful again and again with important questions. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/288 "2013-01-25T01:43:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So hey, about the personal (empirical) experience that convinces you god had a hand in the design of your body? What about that? Or any of the other stuff you were asked about before leapfrogging to some other subtopic… I’m bringing this back around because I’d like to see it answered too. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/289 "2013-01-25T01:53:19Z")
I haven’t attempted to answer this because I don’t like the word empirical because it is too limiting. Religious people have more senses than the typical empiricist. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/290 "2013-01-25T02:03:33Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I haven’t attempted to answer this because I don’t like the word empirical because it is too limiting. Religious people have more senses than the typical empiricist. name them - and then prove these extras exist. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/291 "2013-01-25T02:09:25Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > True. What I’m saying is that with the most important questions of life, science is useless because it isn’t possible to experiment. . . . Actually, I’ll agree with this. Science isn’t going to tell me whether getting married to my old college sweetie would be a good idea or not. Science isn’t going to help me decide if I need to call the cops if I see something scary on the street. Science isn’t going to change my mind regarding various personal preferences and tastes. I don’t know how I can use science to justify my liberal beliefs, or my love for my sister, or whether to accept a job offer. And science isn’t going to tell me whether or not there is a God, especially if he is defined in such a way as to elude any possible investigation. He’s invisible, see, and intangible, and exists outside of time and space, and is all-powerful and all-knowing, but doesn’t behave as if he were all-powerful and all-knowing… Lots of things are simply not amenable to scientific investigation. Religious things are specifically constructed as to be impossible to examine rationally. At least I can take the job for a while and see if I like it. God doesn’t even offer me that much! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/292 "2013-01-25T02:10:34Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I haven’t attempted to answer this because I don’t like the word empirical because it is too limiting. Religious people have more senses than the typical empiricist. Then discuss your personal experience without the e-word. This can’t be that hard. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/293 "2013-01-25T02:12:25Z")
Well, I’m not going to attempt to speak for other religious people. But for me I rely a lot on intuition and revelation. God reveals himself to me, as I get older, He reveals His path for me. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/294 "2013-01-25T02:19:44Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Well, I’m not going to attempt to speak for other religious people. But for me I rely a lot on intuition and revelation. God reveals himself to me, as I get older, He reveals His path for me. Happy for you then. Again, this all seems pretty pointless. You’re view about whether or not everything was a big accident is obviously colored by the fact that God talks to you and has revealed his path to you. Pretty much a slam dunk in that case on your part I’d say as to whether or not life, the universe and everything was all an accident or due to an intelligent super being, wouldn’t you say? 😛 The rest of us simply have to look at the evidence we see, since I presume that like me, God ain’t talking to them either… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/295 "2013-01-25T02:22:18Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Well, I’m not going to attempt to speak for other religious people. Nobody asked you to! You’ve been asked half a dozen times for your own personal experience. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > Empiricism asserts that knowledge comes from sensory experience. What experience would lead you to conclude that your body was designed by a god? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/296 "2013-01-25T02:22:26Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Well, I’m not going to attempt to speak for other religious people. But for me I rely a lot on intuition and revelation. God reveals himself to me, as I get older, He reveals His path for me. Does he reveal himself to anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/297 "2013-01-25T02:29:36Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Actually, I’ll agree with this. Science isn’t going to tell me whether getting married to my old college sweetie would be a good idea or not. Science isn’t going to help me decide if I need to call the cops if I see something scary on the street. Science isn’t going to change my mind regarding various personal preferences and tastes. I don’t know how I can use science to justify my liberal beliefs, or my love for my sister, or whether to accept a job offer. True, that’s why I try to limit science to it’s proper role. Also, I assume that in some manner, God reveals himself to some of the other people that go to church also. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/298 "2013-01-25T02:31:57Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I haven’t attempted to answer this because I don’t like the word empirical because it is too limiting. Religious people have more senses than the typical empiricist. So religious people are what, mutants? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/299 "2013-01-25T02:51:17Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Well, I’m not going to attempt to speak for other religious people. But for me I rely a lot on intuition and revelation. God reveals himself to me, as I get older, He reveals His path for me. How do you know the entity in question ain’t an evil deceiver? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/300 "2013-01-25T02:58:22Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > How do you know the entity in question ain’t an evil deceiver? Because it agrees with him in every way, no doubt. The One True God has a noticeable tendency to do that with his believers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721.md?page=16)