# Was It All An Accident...Or Did An Intelligent **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721 "2013-01-19T17:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/321 "2013-01-25T14:09:42Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Perhaps, but it is rational as I’ve defined the terms. You are entitled to your own beliefs; you are not entitled to your own words. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/322 "2013-01-25T14:12:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Have you ever actually opened a dictionary in your life? Yes. Seldom, but don’t tell my clients because I’ve been practicing law for over 20 years. Even when I was a kid I didn’t find a dictionary very useful. Most of the time I was able to figure out what words meant by reading and looking at the context. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/323 "2013-01-25T14:15:33Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Yes. Seldom, but don’t tell my clients because I’ve been practicing law for over 20 years. Even when I was a kid I didn’t find a dictionary very useful. Most of the time I was able to figure out what words meant by reading and looking at the context. practicing law? wow… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/324 "2013-01-25T14:44:49Z")
> [@simster](#): > > practicing law? > > wow… :eek: Hopefully, that was a friendly wow and not a sarcastic wow. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/325 "2013-01-25T14:50:43Z")
I’m betting on the “holy shit, how did you get through law school?!” wow. One would hope (given all you’ve posted so far) that you do not argue cases, but instead do things like draft wills. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/326 "2013-01-25T14:57:38Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > I understand that most people think of logical and rational as being somewhat similar. However, for me this is not helpful. > > I modify the terms as follows: > > 1. What the vast majority of people believe is logical. > > 2. What a significant minority of people believe is rational. > > 3. What doesn’t fit into 1) and 2) above is irrational. This means that, to you, [crystal healing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_healing) is rational, correct? If I explained to you that crystals of the correct colors create an energy grid that surrounds the patient with healing energy, you’d conclude that my beliefs were rational because others held them as well? Does it follow that [Ignaz Semmelweis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis)’s belief in the efficacy of antiseptic procedures in preventing infections was irrational, because others didn’t share the belief at the time? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/327 "2013-01-25T14:58:28Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Hopefully, that was a friendly wow and not a sarcastic wow. it is a metaphorical wow - I have no problem with your ‘belief’ in a God or Christianity - even if you don’t seem to have any consistentency on the matter - I do have a problem thinking you made it thru Law School and are a practicing lawyer with the way you present arguments on this board - one of these things is not like the other. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/328 "2013-01-25T15:03:00Z")
> [@saje](#): > > I’m betting on the “holy shit, how did you get through law school?!” wow. One would hope (given all you’ve posted so far) that you do not argue cases, but instead do things like draft wills. Actually, that’s why I spent 8 years at Cal at Berkeley. I took a year off between my first and second year of law school to figure out whether I really wanted to practice. After all, I only had a vague idea of what 5% of the words meant…lol. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/329 "2013-01-25T15:06:54Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Hopefully, that was a friendly wow and not a sarcastic wow. I see your interpretive skills are still as accurate as they’ve always been. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/330 "2013-01-25T15:17:13Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Actually, that’s why I spent 8 years at Cal at Berkeley. I took a year off between my first and second year of law school to figure out whether I really wanted to practice. After all, I only had a vague idea of what 5% of the words meant…lol. Dude, you may want to lay off the “lol’s”-nobody else here is finding your vastly inadequate grasp of language and religion the least bit humorous. It is frustrating trying to communicate with you, and your continued insistence that we adapt your personal definitions for words that already have established definitions is sheer hubris. To boil it down: What you are doing to conversation on this board is not funny. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/331 "2013-01-25T15:27:57Z")
I know accusing someone of being a troll is not cool, but am I the only one starting to feel a bit of chain-yanking here? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/332 "2013-01-25T15:33:19Z")
> [@saje](#): > > I know accusing someone of being a troll is not cool, but am I the only one starting to feel a bit of chain-yanking here? I won’t go that far - I see it as either a) he’s truly deluded and confused - perhaps he did a little too much LDS back at berkley b) he’s using this as an exercise to help build a case dealing with ‘Non compos mentis’ ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/333 "2013-01-25T15:34:34Z")
> [@saje](#): > > I know accusing someone of being a troll is not cool, but am I the only one starting to feel a bit of chain-yanking here? Face it guys, if my arguments weren’t on some level rational, you wouldn’t bother responding. It seems like some of the atheists on this board don’t like it when one of the religious guys argues back. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/334 "2013-01-25T15:36:01Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > This means that, to you, [crystal healing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_healing) is rational, correct? If I explained to you that crystals of the correct colors create an energy grid that surrounds the patient with healing energy, you’d conclude that my beliefs were rational because others held them as well? > > Does it follow that [Ignaz Semmelweis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis)’s belief in the efficacy of antiseptic procedures in preventing infections was irrational, because others didn’t share the belief at the time? Oh there you go being all logicky again. It’s no use, **Pchaos** is not a rational person. Words mean what they want them to mean and only when it suits him. You can have no reasonable conversation with someone like that. **Pchaos** , you might actually be a nice person, but you have long lost any credibility. You’re a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/335 "2013-01-25T15:41:18Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Face it guys, if my arguments weren’t on some level rational, you wouldn’t bother responding. Nobody yells at the cat for crapping in the shoes because they find the idea of crap in their shoes to be rational. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/336 "2013-01-25T15:50:39Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Face it guys, if my arguments weren’t on some level rational, you wouldn’t bother responding. > > It seems like some of the atheists on this board don’t like it when one of the religious guys argues back. not accurate at all - we’ve spent a great deal of effort trying to understand your arguments so that we can have a reasonable debate on the topic. Now that it is clear that you are making up definitions as you go, we realize there is no common ground for a debate to be had. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/337 "2013-01-25T15:50:44Z")
No, you don’t argue with someone you agree with, you argue with someone who does NOT see things your way. Here, let me be that annoying person: \*\*rational \*\*[ˈræʃənəl] adj 1. **using reason or logic** in thinking out a problem 2. **in accordance with the principles of logic or reason; reasonable** 3. of sound mind; sane the patient seemed quite rational 4. endowed with the capacity to reason; capable of logical thought man is a rational being 5. (Mathematics) Maths expressible as a ratio of two integers or polynomials a rational number; a rational function n (Mathematics) Maths a rational number [from Latin ratiōnālis, from ratiō reason] **log·i·cal** (lj-kl) adj. 1. Of, relating to, in accordance with, or of the nature of logic. 2. **Based on earlier or otherwise known statements, events, or conditions; reasonable:** Rain was a logical expectation, given the time of year. 3. \*\*Reasoning or capable of reasoning in a clear and consistent manner. \*\* \*\*ir·ra·tion·al \*\* (-rsh-nl) adj. 4. a. **Not endowed with reason.** b. Affected by loss of usual or normal mental clarity; **incoherent,** as from shock. c. Marked by a lack of accord with reason or sound judgment: an irrational dislike. 2. a. Being a syllable in Greek and Latin prosody whose length does not fit the metric pattern. b. Being a metric foot containing such a syllable. 3. Mathematics Of or relating to an irrational number. n. Mathematics An irrational number. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/338 "2013-01-25T15:54:30Z")
[quote=“Latro, post:334, topic:647721”] Oh there you go being all logicky again. It’s no use, **Pchaos** is not a rational person. I’m not insisting that people follow my definitions. However, my definitions make it easier for me to follow your arguments. If you recall, in order for an argument to be rational a significant minority of the people have to believe in them. A summary of my basic argument so far is that in life, science has a role. However, for some of the most important ethical questions, science fails to provide adequate answers. And perhaps religion is better suited for these ethical questions. To me this is a rational argument because a significant minority believe this. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/339 "2013-01-25T15:57:04Z")
> [@saje](#): > > I know accusing someone of being a troll is not cool, but am I the only one starting to feel a bit of chain-yanking here? It’s not cool, so don’t do it again. > [@Latro](#): > > **Pchaos** is not a rational person. […] You’re a fool. Personal insults aren’t allowed in this forum either. Knock it off. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/340 "2013-01-25T15:58:45Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > A summary of my basic argument so far is that in life, science has a role. However, for some of the most important ethical questions, science fails to provide adequate answers. And perhaps religion is better suited for these ethical questions. To me this is a rational argument because a significant minority believe this. A significant minority believes that the Earth is less than ten thousand years old. A significant minority believes Obama was born in Kenya. These are not rational things to believe in. I think your definition is inadequate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721.md?page=18)