# Was It All An Accident...Or Did An Intelligent **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721 "2013-01-19T17:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/601 "2013-01-30T19:27:20Z")
Well…if I believe the Bible is the primary text. Am I required to believe every statement. If my pastor told me that, I would probably look for another church. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/602 "2013-01-30T19:49:20Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Well…if I believe the Bible is the primary text. Am I required to believe every statement. If my pastor told me that, I would probably look for another church. so, you go shopping until you find the answers taht “feel” right? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/603 "2013-01-30T19:53:06Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Well…if I believe the Bible is the primary text. What does this mean? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/604 "2013-01-30T20:11:17Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > No. That’s why I brought up the topic of a “specialized intuition.” People should only rely on intuition if they have developed an area of expertise. For instance, Magic Johnson’s intuition in basketball. Bill Clinton’s intuition in politics and so on. > > If it’s your first time playing basketball. It’s not a good idea to rely on intuition. So, intuition is equivalent to experience now? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/605 "2013-01-30T20:19:51Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > So, intuition is equivalent to experience now? No, but it’s a factor to be considered. Would you let your 10 year old boy decide whether he should go to school? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/606 "2013-01-30T20:21:07Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > So, intuition is equivalent to experience now? **pchaos** ’s definition of intuition apparently does include experience and reflex. BTW, I’m not entirely sure of that, because **pchaos** uses words in ways nobody else does and doesn’t define or clarify how he uses those words. > [@pchaos](#): > > No, but it’s a factor to be considered. Would you let your 10 year old boy decide whether he should go to school? That’s not intuition as traditionally defined, and it would be a good idea to clear up **your** definition. Intuition is a quick, direct insight. Magic Johnson’s basketball skills are not insights, nor were they obtained quickly or directly. Bill Clinton’s policy skills are not quick, direct insights, but skills obtained over a lifetime of study and experience. Using words in a manner different from their definition leads to these misunderstandings. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/607 "2013-01-30T20:26:01Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > No, but it’s a factor to be considered. Would you let your 10 year old boy decide whether he should go to school? Non sequitur. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/608 "2013-01-30T20:31:05Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > No, but it’s a factor to be considered. Would you let your 10 year old boy decide whether he should go to school? Don’t have a ten year old son, but when my daughters were 10 I would, since they both would have gone. That is upbringing, not intuition. Being Jewish, my lack of belief in Jesus has nothing to do with intuition either. It is a combination of education, environment, and common sense. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/609 "2013-01-30T20:59:55Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > Why is it delusional. As I see it, you are having a dialog with an imaginary friend. For a five-year-old, that kind of thing is typically regarded as a fairly normal part of the growing process, for a normal, post-pubescent person, it tends to fall into the realm of some mental disorder or other. I take the classic mathematical proof that reaches the conclusion “1 = 2” as an indication that infinite and finite things cannot relate to each other in a meaningful way. On that premise, you either have to accept that the non-corporeal entity that you claim to be talking to is not omnimax or that you are talking to air/yourself. To assert that your jehovallah is omni-stuff yet you can communicate with it in a meaningful way amounts to either ignorance or self-delusion. > [@](#): > > The bible is 2 thousand years of wisdom. Where do you get “2 thousand years”? The way I understand it, the composition and compilation of the christian bible covers a span of about six or seven centuries. > [@](#): > > Members of my parish are people I listen to and respect. My minister understands the personal struggles I go through. When I pray, I renew my dialogue with God. Add all this together I consider it another “sense” that is perhaps as valid as any. Shared delusion, now that is what makes religion scary. A group of people with a common cognitive error reinforcing each other’s folly. No good can come of this. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/610 "2013-01-30T21:03:23Z")
> [@For You](#): > > A group of people with a common cognitive error reinforcing each other’s folly. No good can come of this. There’s even a nifty term for it I learned today: [incestuous amplification](http://www.cybercollege.com/ia.htm). ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/611 "2013-01-30T21:57:09Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > What’s wisdom isn’t original, and what’s original isn’t wisdom. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > There’s even a nifty term for it I learned today: [incestuous amplification](http://www.cybercollege.com/ia.htm). Good stuff, thanks ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/612 "2013-01-30T23:30:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not rational-and I’m using the real definition of the word “rational”, not yours. It is a contradiction for a god to tell one person that Jesus is the his son and to tell another person that he isn’t. > > 1. Either your god is lying to somebody, or > 2. There is more than one god at work here, or > 3. There is no god. > > Which is it? You left out one possibility: 1. God was correctly informing one person, but the other person’s contradictory ideas, which he thought were a revelation from god, were really just a delusion. Which brings us back to the question that was already asked of pchaos: if #4 is the case, how can we tell which person got the revelation and which is delusional? ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/613 "2013-01-30T23:57:01Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Which brings us back to the question that was already asked of pchaos: if #4 is the case, how can we tell which person got the revelation and which is delusional? So under your definition of rational there’s only one conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/614 "2013-01-31T01:15:45Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > So under your definition of rational there’s only one conclusion. Uh, yup, that’s pretty much the definition that everyone uses in this context. ---
**Author:** ![pchaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/258eb7/32.png) [@pchaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pchaos)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/615 "2013-01-31T01:22:06Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Uh, yup, that’s pretty much the definition that everyone uses in this context. The problem is even if that were true, it’s still possible to have different conclusions if you come from different premises. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/616 "2013-01-31T01:31:19Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > The problem is even if that were true, it’s still possible to have different conclusions if you come from different premises. But if intuition is inspired by god, they should be the same, unless one is a delusion. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/617 "2013-01-31T01:57:55Z")
**pchaos** , in the _real_ world everybody can’t be right. Have you looked up the word “contradiction” yet? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/618 "2013-01-31T02:28:10Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > The problem is even if that were true, it’s still possible to have different conclusions if you come from different premises. But at that point, what’s the use of talking about intuition and divine revelation? What does it add? You’ve got one guy who’s correct, and one guy who’s incorrect, and, okay, fine, sure, for the sake of argument they’re both relying on intuition thanks to a revelation from God; so what? All you’ve done is explain that I should treat a heavenly message from on high like a claim from my dimwitted cousin: maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not; if I didn’t already know the answer, I don’t really have any extra information to work with now. He’s a stage magician telling us his lovely assistant is still in the box. He’s a used-car salesman saying another buyer is coming by with a deposit for that vehicle. He’s every guy who ever said _“the check is in the mail”_ or _“of course I’ll still respect you in the morning.”_ Might be true. Might not. It changes nothing. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/619 "2013-01-31T03:13:38Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > All you’ve done is explain that I should treat a heavenly message from on high like a claim from my dimwitted cousin: maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not; if I didn’t already know the answer, I don’t really have any extra information to work with now. Just review the thread … > [@pchaos](#): > > … Intuition and personal revelation can only be checked by results. It either makes your life better or it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721/620 "2013-01-31T03:50:37Z")
> [@pchaos](#): > > So under your definition of rational there’s only one conclusion. If you recall, the specific question being discussed is whether Jesus is the son of God. So yes, under the definition of “rational” that the whole English-speaking world uses, that question has only one answer. If two people claim to have had contradictory answers revealed to them by God, how can we tell which one is correct? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-all-an-accident-or-did-an-intelligent/647721.md?page=32)