# Was it right for Dan Brown to call her "Magdalene"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 14, 2006, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698 "2006-05-14T01:48:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/1 "2006-05-14T01:48:58Z")
Much has been said about how the title of Dan Brown’s book, _The Da Vinci Code_, betrays his lack of scholarly research. After all, any knowledgeable art historian would know that the great master’s name was “Leonardo,” not “da Vinci.” The latter means “from Vinci,” and merely indicates a place of origin. Today, I noticed that Brown repeatedly refers to the alleged spouse of Jesus as “Magdalene.” Not “Mary Magdalene,” and not “the Magdalene” – just _Magdalene_. I presume that this is yet another error on his part, as this surname is commonly understood to mean “of Magdala,” thereby indicating her hometown. I wanted to double-check though, lest I speak too hastily. Can anyone refute or corroborate this view? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/2 "2006-05-14T02:03:09Z")
Well, the thing about _The da Vinci Code_ is that it is a novel, _i.e._ a work of fiction. Scholarly attention to detail isn’t the objective of a novelist. The novelist wants first of all to tell a good story in an interesting manner. All of this hoo ha about the book reminds of people who get all tied up in the trivia of the Sherlock Holmes stories. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/3 "2006-05-14T02:14:13Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Well, the thing about _The da Vinci Code_ is that it is a novel, _i.e._ a work of fiction. Scholarly attention to detail isn’t the objective of a novelist. The novelist wants first of all to tell a good story in an interesting manner. \<\< Sigh \>\> Do we have to go over this yet again? \*\* _Dan Brown himself claimed that his book was based on accurate scholarly research._ \*\* In fact, when he appeard on _Good Morning America_, he was asked: “if you were writing it as a nonfiction book, how would it have been different?” Dan Brown responded: “I don’t think it would have. I began the research for _The Da Vinci Code_ as a skeptic. I entirely expected, as I researched the book, to disprove this theory, and after numerous trips to Europe and two years of research, I really became a believer.” Finally, _even if Brown had not claimed that the “facts” presented in his book were accurate_, it would still be legitimate to ask if his use of the name “Magdalene” was accurate. So please, let’s have no more of this nonsense that “It’s just fiction!” That’s simply irrelevant to the topic at hand. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/4 "2006-05-14T05:45:41Z")
Many last names, particularly in Western and Northern Europe, are place-of-origin surnames. The German “von,” the Dutch “van,” and the French “du” or " d’ " all (can) mean “from” or “of.” English place-of-origin names are less common, and leave out the “from” bit, but are nontheless actual last names. And, as much as those art historians might not like it, “da Vinci” has become a de facto last name for Leonardo. Similarly, “Magdalene” would be Mary’s last name if English (without the “the”). So… when writing in English (Brown’s language) to his intended audience (normal English-reading peoples), and using the standard practice of referring to historical figures by their last names, I’d say it would put many readers off by writing “the Magdelene” all the time. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/5 "2006-05-14T06:30:42Z")
I don’t think that really answers the question, though. The question, after all, is whether “Magdalene” can be legitimately considered to be her name. Sure, it might put readers off by referring to her as “the Magdalene,” but that’s a different issue altogether. Besides, it’s a false dilemma. If “the Magdalene” sounds too pompous, then he could have simply called her “Mary Magdalene,” as the vast majority of writers do. BTW, Mary Magdalene was not from Western or Northern Europe. She also lived over a millenium before the European nations started to adopt the use of family names. I really don’t think we can take the naming conventions of Western or Northern Europe and then graft them onto her. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/6 "2006-05-14T07:14:48Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > BTW, Mary Magdalene was not from Western or Northern Europe. She also lived over a millenium before the European nations started to adopt the use of family names. I really don’t think we can take the naming conventions of Western or Northern Europe and then graft them onto her. Why not? We do it all the time. The reason she’s identified as Magdalene is to distinguish her from the other Marys in the Bible. Few Biblical figures have surnames, but the abundance of Marys forced the issue. I’ve always heard her simply called “Mary Magdalene” like it was her first and last name. Occationally, I’d see “Mary, the Magdalene” in older translations, but the “ene” suffix already means “of.” What else would you have Brown use? It is exceedingly rare to refer any character in a book, both fiction and non-fiction, by his or her full name, as it makes for a difficult read. To use only “Mary” would traditionally indicate Jesus’s mom. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/7 "2006-05-14T13:18:56Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > \<\< Sigh \>\> Do we have to go over this yet again? > \*\* > _Dan Brown himself claimed that his book was based on accurate scholarly research._ \*\* In fact, when he appeard on _Good Morning America_, he was asked: “if you were writing it as a nonfiction book, how would it have been different?” Dan Brown responded: > > “I don’t think it would have. I began the research for _The Da Vinci Code_ as a skeptic. I entirely expected, as I researched the book, to disprove this theory, and after numerous trips to Europe and two years of research, I really became a believer.” > > Finally, _even if Brown had not claimed that the “facts” presented in his book were accurate_, it would still be legitimate to ask if his use of the name “Magdalene” was accurate. > > So please, let’s have no more of this nonsense that “It’s just fiction!” That’s simply irrelevant to the topic at hand. So Brown added a fictitious claim to a work of fiction. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/8 "2006-05-14T13:44:58Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Much has been said about how the title of Dan Brown’s book, _The Da Vinci Code_, betrays his lack of scholarly research. After all, any knowledgeable art historian would know that the great master’s name was “Leonardo,” not “da Vinci.” The latter means “from Vinci,” and merely indicates a place of origin. [pink panther theme] peDANT…peDANT…peDANt peDANT peDANT…[/ppt] Come on, now. Who painted the Mona Lisa? DaVinci, of course! 90% of people (all statistics pulled out of my deriere), including museum tour guides, will refer to the guy as DaVinci. It’s not like you saw the cover of the book and thought, “DaVinci? The glassblower? The butcher? Which man from Vinci could this book possibly be about?” > [@](#): > > Today, I noticed that Brown repeatedly refers to the alleged spouse of Jesus as “Magdalene.” Not “Mary Magdalene,” and not “the Magdalene” – just _Magdalene_. I presume that this is yet another error on his part, as this surname is commonly understood to mean “of Magdala,” thereby indicating her hometown. Again, were you confused by the reference? Could there be anyone else on god’s green earth he was referring to as Magdalene? Sophie Magdalene from third grade, perhaps? Yes, you’re technically correct on both points. And Christ wasn’t Jesus’s last name, either, it was a title. He should properly be referred to as either “Jesus” or “The Christ”. But, Christ, man! We all know who we mean! 😃 The man got enough meaningful stuff “wrong”. Nitpicking like this just makes you look like a bully. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/9 "2006-05-14T15:22:45Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Yes, you’re technically correct on both points. And Christ wasn’t Jesus’s last name, either, it was a title. He should properly be referred to as either “Jesus” or “The Christ”. But, Christ, man! We all know who we mean! 😃 Shouldn’t it be ‘Jesus Nazarene’ to differentiate him from, say, ‘Jesus Abilene’? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/10 "2006-05-14T16:05:05Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > All of this hoo ha about the book reminds of people who get all tied up in the trivia of the Sherlock Holmes stories. Hey now! There’s no afternoon better spent than one with a bunch of Holmes fans arguing about the details of [The Game](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/msherlock.html). A close runner-up are hardcore Wodehouse fans, and let us not neglect those who pour over every detail of the Hornblower and Aubrey/Maturin novels. Followers of George Lucas’ paltry collection of vapid space-opera films have nothing on these fanatics. Never mind the historical accuracy–or manifest lack thereof–of Brown’s novel. It’s turgid, tortured, tiresome prose is enough to make anyone question the value of reading his work. Go read Kazantzakis’ _The Last Temptation of Christ_ instead. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/11 "2006-05-14T16:10:50Z")
I have just returned from an art museum, where I saw a Da Vinci. Except it wasn’t a Leonardo, it was Jerry, Derek or Bud or something (actually, some classical Italian name but I can’t remember what). I agree that she should not have been referred to as “Magdalene”. I also think the book is so awful that it should never have been written in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/12 "2006-05-14T16:52:10Z")
Right. And that guy in the Bible that everyone makes such a big deal about? His name wasn’t really “Jesus”. It was Yeshua Bar-Joseph. Just think about the _thousands_ of books where this glaring historical error is repeated. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/13 "2006-05-14T17:15:44Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Never mind the historical accuracy–or manifest lack thereof–of Brown’s novel. It’s turgid, tortured, tiresome prose is enough to make anyone question the value of reading his work. Go read Kazantzakis’ _The Last Temptation of Christ_ instead. > > Stranger I just read the book and would have to agree that the thing was not very well written. I was struggling with the characters; when Teabing (who is supposed to be an Oxford scholar and has more snottiness than a two year old with a head cold) used the word “momentarily” in the context of “I’ll tell you about that momentarily”, Brown kinda lost me. If the characters are supposed to be erudite, then they need to remain true to type. It’s a nitpick, but it’s the sort of detail that is very distracting to me. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/14 "2006-05-14T17:27:59Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Hey now! There’s no afternoon better spent than one with a bunch of Holmes fans arguing about the details of [The Game](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/msherlock.html) > > Stranger OK. So my comment has to be restricted to _normals._ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/15 "2006-05-14T18:47:56Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > [pink panther theme] peDANT…peDANT…peDANt peDANT peDANT…[/ppt] > Come on, now. Who painted the Mona Lisa? DaVinci, of course! 90% of people (all statistics pulled out of my deriere), including museum tour guides, will refer to the guy as DaVinci. It’s not like you saw the cover of the book and thought, “DaVinci? The glassblower? The butcher? Which man from Vinci could this book possibly be about?” You’re conflating two separate issues. Sure, people would understand who “da Vinci” is. That doesn’t make it his real name, though. Is this being pedantic? If you say so. Personally, I prefer to think of this as fighting ignorance. (Obviously, it’s taking longer than we thought.) > [@](#): > > Again, were you confused by the reference? Could there be anyone else on god’s green earth he was referring to as Magdalene? Sophie Magdalene from third grade, perhaps? Once again, you’re conflating the two issues. People might understand who “Magdalene” is, but that doesn’t mean that it was her name. > [@](#): > > The man got enough meaningful stuff “wrong”. Nitpicking like this just makes you look like a bully. Bully? As opposed to, say, people who browbeat SDMB posters who question whether Dan Brown used the name correctly? You have a rather strange definition of the term. > [@Kizarvexius](#): > > Right. And that guy in the Bible that everyone makes such a big deal about? His name wasn’t really “Jesus”. It was Yeshua Bar-Joseph. Just think about the thousands of books where this glaring historical error is repeated. You raise a legitimate point; however, I think there’s a major difference between the two cases. For one thing, “Jesus” is at least a legitimate transliteration of the name “Yeshua.” And second, it is at least customary to refer to him as “Jesus,” even within scholarly circles. Virtually every English encyclopedia or history book will refer to him by that name. The same cannot be said for scholarly references that refer to “Magdalene” or “da Vinci.” ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/16 "2006-05-14T18:51:08Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > So Brown added a fictitious claim to a work of fiction. He added numerous such claims… and attempted to pass them off as “[FACT](http://www.tektonics.org/davincicrude.htm).” ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/17 "2006-05-14T18:56:43Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Why not? We do it all the time. We do? Since when? > [@](#): > > The reason she’s identified as Magdalene is to distinguish her from the other Marys in the Bible. > Of course, Few Biblical figures have surnames, but the abundance of Marys forced the issue. Nobody denies that. Nobody’s questioning whether she was called “Mary Magdalene.” Rather, the issue is whether she should be properly referred to as “Magdalene” alone, without the first name. Remember, there’s a difference between the _surname_ and the _family name_, which only became customary over a millenium later. > [@](#): > > What else would you have Brown use? How about “Mary Magdalene”? That has a nice ring to it, and it’s what the vast majority of authors use. Besides, it’s not as though he had to mention her name every minute or so, and that there was a pressing need to shorten his book as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/18 "2006-05-14T19:02:13Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > OK. So my comment has to be restricted to _normals._ 😉 I like to think of myself as normal (in the engineering sense, i.e. orthogonal) to the rest of humanity. It rationalizes my inability to sustain social relationships and my intolernance for the bulk of popular culture. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/19 "2006-05-14T20:35:48Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > He added numerous such claims… and attempted to pass them off as “[FACT](http://www.tektonics.org/davincicrude.htm).” Well, I’m just devastated. De Barbarians is at de gates. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2006, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698/20 "2006-05-14T20:54:57Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > English place-of-origin names are less common, and leave out the “from” bit, but are nontheless actual last names. My last name is a Scottish place-of-origin name. Of course, those ancestors came from Ulster… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-it-right-for-dan-brown-to-call-her-magdalene/356698.md?page=2)