# Was J. Edgar Hoover a Cross Dresser? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [May 25, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser/755650 "2016-05-25T12:16:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser/755650/1 "2016-05-25T12:16:05Z")
I know that the rumors about Hoover [cross dressing](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2423/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser) were just rumors, but Tim Gunn has an interesting _Vivian Vance_ story. This is from an interview he did on [Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me](http://www.npr.org/2014/06/07/319423432/not-my-job-project-runways-tim-gunn-gets-quizzed-on-terrible-fashion): > [@](#): > > **MO ROCCA** : I don’t mean to send us on a digression, but since you brought up “I Love Lucy,” you do have the single best Vivian Vance story ever. > > **GUNN** : Oh, I do. > > **SAGAL** : If you would like to tell your Vivian Vance story, who am I to stand in your way? > > (LAUGHTER) > > **SAGAL** : Vivian Vance played Ethel on “I Love Lucy.” > > **GUNN** : Yes. My father was a career FBI agent, 26 years. And he was - well, he was an agent but he ended up being J. Edgar Hoover’s ghostwriter, speechwriter - took care of all the correspondents and his office was two doors down from Mr. Hoover’s office. > > And growing up, my sister and I loved the FBI tour. And this one particular year, I was nine or 10 and my sister was therefore six or seven. And my father said, you kids are going to be so excited - Vivian Vance is in Mr. Hoover’s office. And I was a huge “I Love Lucy” fan. Would you like to meet her? Well, yes, of course. So we did and it was lovely and she was charming. > > Years later, my father’s in a nursing home with Alzheimer’s disease - he’s not at the Thanksgiving table where family has gathered. And all these rumors are out about Hoover being a cross-dresser. > > **SAGAL** : Yes. > > **GUNN** : So I was reflecting upon that time in his office with Vivian Vance. > > (LAUGHTER) > > **GUNN** : And I turned to my sister and I said, upon reflection, I know it was years and years ago - doesn’t it strike you as odd that Hoover wasn’t in the office? > > (LAUGHTER) ---
**Author:** ![GOLD5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce7236/32.png) [@GOLD5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOLD5)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser/755650/2 "2016-05-29T04:12:43Z")
In Oliver Stones Tv series The Untold History of the United States he says that after Hoovers death a box of B&W photos were recovered. They were photos of the two men in lingerie reclining together. Not shagging, more the kind of picture lovers take, holding each other. They showed the pictures in the show. Guess you havent watched it… ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser/755650/3 "2016-05-29T06:51:38Z")
For reference, here’s a 2002 thread: J Edgar Hoover: Cross-dresser extraordinaire? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=118413](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=118413) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser/755650/4 "2016-05-29T07:20:10Z")
Oliphant cartoon: [![](https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oliphant/vc007266.jpg) ](https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oliphant/vc007266.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser/755650/5 "2016-05-29T16:26:57Z")
Here’s probably the best debunking. [Did J. Edgar Hoover Really Wear Dresses?](http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/814) by Ronald Kessler. I’ve read Kessler’s book about FBI history. It’s very good and very depressing. The silliest claim is that Hoover made Bert Horgson wear women’s clothes for decades until he died in a secret FBI nursing home. You can find this all over the Internet in articles about Hoover’s cross-dressing. But it actually started as a spoof in a 2002 [Weekly World News]([Weekly World News - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=kPIDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT8&lpg=PT8&dq=Bert+Horgson&source=bl&ots=_6EuvoVeEz&sig=9KJV9m85maWye2AqIFlx1B7CjN4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjA77eo2P_MAhXF2D4KHU-FDXQQ6AEIPTAJ#v=onepage&q=Bert) Horgson&f=false). I hate the Internet as much as I love it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser/755650/6 "2016-05-29T18:24:24Z")
I have a lovely photo somewhere of the Hoove, in a dress, walking with Clyde Tolson. Takes a real FBI nerd to look at it and say, “Who’s that ugly woman with Clyde Tolson?” ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2016, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser/755650/7 "2016-05-31T06:29:42Z")
I seem to recall a TV movie which featured J Edgar Hoover reclining on a chaise lounge in a dress. I think it was [Blood Feud](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Feud_%281983_film%29), starring Robert Blake as Jimmy Hoffa. One capsule review characterized it (or maybe some other film?) as “History as a comic book.” Does anyone remember this? ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser/755650/8 "2016-06-01T21:31:03Z")
> [@GOLD5](#): > > In Oliver Stones Tv series The Untold History of the United States he says that after Hoovers death a box of B&W photos were recovered. They were photos of the two men in lingerie reclining together. Not shagging, more the kind of picture lovers take, holding each other. They showed the pictures in the show. Guess you havent watched it… Don’t know if I’d take Oliver Stone as a historian. I found the Tim Gunn’s story interesting because it was something first hand. Not solid evidence. Maybe Mr. Hoover was called away. Maybe they forgot that he was there. Besides, the story wasn’t exactly told under oath. There was an issue with the Mafia, the various Italian crime families, and their relationship with the FBI. For years, under Hoover’s watch, the FBI denied there was such an organization as the Mafia or that _organized crime_ itself existed. It could be that Hoover was more interested in hunting Communists or using blackmail to build up power than fighting organized crime. It could be that he found the Mafia useful in going after Castro and leftists in general. However, many people in the Mafia said have come forward and said that Hoover loved to play the horses, and that his friends in organized crime would pay Hoover when he won, and forgive Hoover’s debt when he lost. I don’t know if there was any quid pro quo or just Hoover looking out for his friends who looked out for him. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser/755650/9 "2016-06-02T07:04:56Z")
I figure that if J Eger had a cup of coffee and a cigarette before getting dressed, he probably wouldn’t have been in such a bad mood. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser/755650/10 "2016-06-02T08:36:15Z")
> [@qazwart](#): > > I know that the rumors about Hoover [cross dressing](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2423/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser) were just rumors, but Tim Gunn has an interesting _Vivian Vance_ story. This is from an interview he did on [Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me](http://www.npr.org/2014/06/07/319423432/not-my-job-project-runways-tim-gunn-gets-quizzed-on-terrible-fashion): Uh… so Hoover looks like Vivian Vance when dressed up? Or is there something I’m not getting here… ? (… Reads the link… ) Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-j-edgar-hoover-a-cross-dresser/755650/11 "2016-06-02T12:23:36Z")
> [@GOLD5](#): > > In Oliver Stones Tv series The Untold History of the United States he says that after Hoovers death a box of B&W photos were recovered. They were photos of the two men in lingerie reclining together. Not shagging, more the kind of picture lovers take, holding each other. They showed the pictures in the show. Guess you havent watched it… Do you recall which episode?