# Was Janeway right to force Tuvix to separate back into Tuvok and Nelix? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 26, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953 "2016-07-26T16:38:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/1 "2016-07-26T16:38:17Z")
Let’s settle this. Title says it all. Short summary: Nelix and Tuvok are in a transporter accident that causes the to meld into one person. A Hybrid so to speak. One with a singular conscience. And one with a desire to live. After sevral weeks, the Doctor figures out a way to re-separate the two. The problem is, Tuvix has now made a life of his own, has aspirations and forged new friendships. He now wishes to remain the person that he is. Captain Janeway ain’t having it and forces him to undergo a procedure that would effectively kill him off. So, was Janeway right to force him to undergo the procedure? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/2 "2016-07-26T16:39:52Z")
The needs of the 2 outweigh the needs of the 1. Then again a Nelix that could fracking cook and a Tuvok that didn’t always have a stick up his ass might alter that calculation a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/3 "2016-07-26T17:20:13Z")
Lol, I think this poll isn’t going to settle anything, at least not yet 🙂 It’s a tough call, I don’t think it’s enough to say the two outweigh the one. You’re still committing murder - to force this on the individual makes you a tyranny of sorts. At the same time, Janeway has an obligation to her crew - Nelix and Tuvok. It’s tough. I’d say she was right to do, but mostly 'cause I liked Nelix. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/4 "2016-07-26T18:55:15Z")
It’s a legitimately hard decision. Sure Tuvix is sentient and can have his own agency… but the counter is–what about Neelix and Tuvok’s agency? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/5 "2016-07-26T19:08:22Z")
Tuvok and Neelix died in that transporter accident. We can morn our loss and still accept their offspring. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/6 "2016-07-26T19:31:24Z")
Tuvok and Neelix were two separate beings. It may have appeared that they were combined into one new being, but they were really two beings trapped in one body. A suspension, not a solution. It wouldn’t have been long before they started separating internally, causing conflicts that no one else could see, resulting in self-destructive behavior that no one could understand, or even do anything about if they did figure it out. Not to mention immune systems from two different species fighting each other. Janeway did the right thing. Left alone they would have been dead or institutionalized within a year. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/7 "2016-07-26T19:36:54Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > Tuvok and Neelix were two separate beings. It may have appeared that they were combined into one new being, but they were really two beings trapped in one body. A suspension, not a solution. It wouldn’t have been long before they started separating internally, causing conflicts that no one else could see, resulting in self-destructive behavior that no one could understand, or even do anything about if they did figure it out. Not to mention immune systems from two different species fighting each other. > > Janeway did the right thing. Left alone they would have been dead or institutionalized within a year. None of this is even hinted at in the actual episode though. According to the doctor this was an entirely different individual, and I don’t recall him mentioning anything about possible issues long term. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/8 "2016-07-26T19:44:02Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Tuvok and Neelix died in that transporter accident. > > We can morn our loss and still accept their offspring. I’d call it missing until declared dead, and the moment the cure was found, they’d be considered missing but able to be rescued. Janeway couldn’t knowingly abandon a crew member if there were anything she could do. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/9 "2016-07-26T19:46:02Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > and I don’t recall him mentioning anything about possible issues long term. And how would he know? This type of thing isn’t happening all the time for there to be studies done. ---
**Author:** ![TipTapTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@TipTapTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TipTapTwo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/10 "2016-07-26T20:01:47Z")
No, she was wrong to separate Tuvix; just as it would be wrong for her to separate any of her other crew into different bodies that held only the left and right brain lobes respectively. You are two – CGP Grey [You Are Two - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfYbgdo8e-8) We are all inherently two different people coordinating together and sharing the same body, why should the group’s needs for separating out specializations/personalities (needing both Nelix’s cooking or whatever, and Tuvok’s logic, in different places on the ship at the same time) be any different than further separating Tuvok so his mathematical sided brain and his other language specialization side can be put to work on separate problems, in separate bodies, at the same time? Data and Picard already weighed in on this question when Picard asked Data to submit himself to be taken apart and studied “for the greater good” of Star Fleet. Data counters with the observation that Geordi’s Visor is superior to regular human eyes, thus “for the greater good” Star Fleet should have forced all humanoids to have their own eyes removed and replaced with Visors. [Data Owns Picard - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-htVPOSBYfs) Now if everyone were mixed-and-matched with others, and summarily parted out again as needed -all the time, as a regular act- I can get behind that concept of a society being a boiling gestaltic broth ranging from full Borg oneness to singular myopic specializations all ready-to-order for the task at hand. But anything less than that is unfair and immoral to subject thinking beings to. As that act “kills” them, even if the two+ new people produced are more useful to society. (but then again, with the way that transporters work, everyone in the Star Trek universe is a-ok with murdering people just for the sake of convenience. [The Trouble with Transporters - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQHBAdShgYI) ) ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/11 "2016-07-26T20:10:31Z")
Tuvok was a member of Starfleet and a member of her crew. She had strong legal and ethical obligations to protect him. Neelix was a civilian contractor attached to her crew. She had contractual and ethical obligations to protect him. Tuvix was a visitor. Crew members take priority over strangers. Harm to him was “collateral damage”. ---
**Author:** ![Karen\_Lingel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karen_lingel/32/18649_2.png) [@Karen\_Lingel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karen_Lingel)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/12 "2016-07-26T21:36:04Z")
If they ever invent transporter technology, I’m never setting foot in it. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/13 "2016-07-26T21:52:12Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Tuvok was a member of Starfleet and a member of her crew. She had strong legal and ethical obligations to protect him. > > Neelix was a civilian contractor attached to her crew. She had contractual and ethical obligations to protect him. > > Tuvix was a visitor. Crew members take priority over strangers. Harm to him was “collateral damage”. Exactly what I was going to say. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > Tuvok and Neelix died in that transporter accident. It’s Star Trek. Lots of people died in lots of ways. So long as you can reset back to your last save point, it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/14 "2016-07-26T22:18:17Z")
She was correct to do so. “Tuvix” can be viewed as a personality disorder forced upon Tuvok and Neelix by the transporter accident, similar to the mental and emotional changes wrought by the involuntary consumption of a psychotropic drug. Separating them is simply treating the disorder. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/15 "2016-07-26T22:50:43Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > And how would he know? This type of thing isn’t happening all the time for there to be studies done. He’s only the most advanced medical hologram ever devised by human kind! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/16 "2016-07-26T23:21:36Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Tuvok and Neelix died in that transporter accident. > > We can morn our loss and still accept their offspring. This was my logic. Besides, think of the money the producers would have saved negotiating one contract instead of two! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/17 "2016-07-26T23:31:08Z")
Tuvix was a construct, not a real being. Separating it back into two actual real beings when it became possible was the correct action. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/18 "2016-07-27T18:14:39Z")
Difficult decision. But they presented Tuvix as a healthy and fully independent new individual. He deserved to live. Tuvok and Neelix were tragic victims of a transporter accident. That should not be reversed at the expense of another person’s life. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/19 "2016-07-27T18:30:32Z")
Except, wouldn’t Tuvix have some severe mental health issues given the completely different memories, experiences and previous beliefs and positions being jumbled up in one brain? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953/20 "2016-07-27T18:31:12Z")
Trek made this decision too easy. If you’ll recall, The Doctor initially said Tuvix couldn’t be reversed. He started his duties as a crewman. A few days later The Doctor finds a way to reverse things. What if… That occurred ten years later? How many people would agree it’s ok to separate Tuvix then? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-janeway-right-to-force-tuvix-to-separate-back-into-tuvok-and-nelix/760953.md?page=2)