# Was jesus born in what we would call modern day IRAQ? My friends think I am nuts.. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 21, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769 "2009-07-21T20:08:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/21 "2009-07-22T01:00:40Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Jesus was born in the sweaty imaginations of a bunch of con artists. **Moderator Note** **Clothahump** , religious jabs like this are not appropriate for GQ. I am making this a note instead of a warning, but don’t do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/22 "2009-07-22T01:01:49Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > And isn’t this why the Bible believers (and some others) refer to Iraq as the birthplace of “civilization”? > > [No political or religious agenda here.] The idea of Iraq as the birthplace of civilization is by no means confined to “Bible believers”. Do you remember learning about the “[Fertile Crescent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertile_cresent)” and [Mesopotamia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamia) back in school? Ancient Iraq was very definitely one of the birthplaces of civilization. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/23 "2009-07-22T01:09:18Z")
The general region of Mesopotamia (the name means “in the middle of/between rivers”) was literally the region where civilization (i.e. agriculture, sedentary culture and the rise of city states) began. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/24 "2009-07-22T01:10:07Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The idea of Iraq as the birthplace of civilization is by no means confined to “Bible believers”. Do you remember learning about the “[Fertile Crescent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertile_cresent)” and [Mesopotamia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamia) back in school? Ancient Iraq was very definitely one of the birthplaces of civilization. That’s why I added “some others”. I’m not being argumentative but Africa and Asia figure into the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/25 "2009-07-22T01:29:48Z")
In school (decades ago) we learned of multiple “cradles of civilization”, including the Indus River valley, Mesoamerica, the Nile River Valley and China, but ancient Iraq was considered the most important. And this idea was completely independent of Bible belief. ---
**Author:** ![SSG\_Schwartz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/26 "2009-07-22T02:07:44Z")
The biblical Abraham’s house is in Iraq. Maybe that is what the OP was thinking of. I saw it when I was there. It is close to a pyramid for some sun god or other, but I was fascinated by Abraham’s house. Something that old, and that well known to actually see in person. SSG Schwartz ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/27 "2009-07-22T02:29:30Z")
> [@SSG\_Schwartz](#): > > The biblical Abraham’s house is in Iraq. Maybe that is what the OP was thinking of. I saw it when I was there. It is close to a pyramid for some sun god or other, but I was fascinated by Abraham’s house. Something that old, and that well known to actually see in person. > > SSG Schwartz It’s not that old. It was built by Saddam Hussein in 1999. It was, however, built in one of the orginal house foundations from ruins of ancient Ur, where the Bible says Abraham was from. The “pyramid” you saw was a ziggurat – a temple to a moon god. That was real. There is actually no historical evdience for Abraham outside the Bible, and most modern ANE historians and archaeologists regard him as a purely legendary character. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/28 "2009-07-22T03:46:58Z")
I figured the best way to get this information was to go to the source. So I asked my friend Jesus. He told me he was born in Queens. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/29 "2009-07-22T03:52:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is actually no historical evdience for Abraham outside the Bible, and most modern ANE historians and archaeologists regard him as a purely legendary character. Pretty much. Oh, sure there could have been some tribal elder by that name, whose memory inspired the legends, but it’s pretty much all legend. Same with Noah. In fact, even King David is almost entirely legendary, except possibly the name. (There’s reference to a “House of David” so _a_ King David can be assumed, if not proven) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/30 "2009-07-22T03:58:20Z")
I think the prevailing consenus is that there was probably a David (as you noted, the [Tel Dan Stele](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_Stele) seems to indicate at least a “House of David”), but that he was probably just a small, local chieftain or warlord, not somebody who controlled anything like the kind of kingdom decribed in the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/31 "2009-07-22T05:02:48Z")
> [@ih8hwy17](#): > > but I say it is true. Your thoughts please I’m with your friends. hh ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/32 "2009-07-22T10:03:39Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > … now that the OP has been answered, … If this was Great Debates, then I’d agree that the preponderance of posts has demonstrated that most posters believe he was _not_ born in modern-day Iraq. But this is General Questions. Relevant evidence should be weighed and evaluated. I’m hoping that **ih8hwy17** will return to explain WHY he thinks as he does. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/33 "2009-07-22T14:06:55Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > So Jesus _was_ an Arab! No, [a Capricorn.](http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/kristofferson-kris/jesus-was-a-capricorn-1890.html) ---
**Author:** ![Crescend](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Crescend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crescend)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/34 "2009-07-22T14:32:13Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > No, [a Capricorn.](http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/kristofferson-kris/jesus-was-a-capricorn-1890.html) Ecce capra? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/35 "2009-07-22T14:50:13Z")
> [@Crescend](#): > > Ecce capra? Look at the goat? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/36 "2009-07-22T15:01:09Z")
The church fathers cut that part out of the Gospels. Very unsavory. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/37 "2009-07-22T15:35:51Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > No He wasn’t unless George Washington was born in China and Adolf Hitler in India. 😛 Well, no. If we only need to shift the map by around 200 miles, Washington is probably still born in the US (or maybe the Atlantic) and Hitler somewhere in Europe, maybe even in Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/38 "2009-07-22T17:34:47Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s not that old. It was built by Saddam Hussein in 1999. It was, however, built in one of the orginal house foundations from ruins of ancient Ur, where the Bible says Abraham was from. Could we have a cite for this? A cousin of mine who was deployed in Iraq was very excited about all of the pictures he brought back of the site, and excitedly showed them to us. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/39 "2009-07-22T17:42:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I figured the best way to get this information was to go to the source. So I asked my friend Jesus. He told me he was born in Queens. Oh, you lying heretic! He told _me_ he’s from Oaxaca. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769/40 "2009-07-22T17:46:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Could we have a cite for this? A cousin of mine who was deployed in Iraq was very excited about all of the pictures he brought back of the site, and excitedly showed them to us. [Newsweek](http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/checkpointbaghdad/archive/2009/04/21/a-plan-for-opening-abraham-s-biblical-city.aspx) > [@](#): > > Saddam added embellishments to Ur. In hopes of a never-made visit by the late Pope John Paul II, he ordered the foundations of three ancient homes to be combined and built into a mansion to represent Abraham’s house – surely a distortion of the modest abode Abraham probably had if he was indeed from there. [Archaeology Today](http://www.archaeology.org/0907/etc/president.html) > [@](#): > > Saddam Hussein had ordered the work done in 1999 in expectation of a papal visit, and essentially created the same kind of grandiose mansion for Abraham as he had for himself. Ask your cousin for me if he likes the Golden Gate Bridge, because I’d be happy to sell it to him cheap if he wants it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-born-in-what-we-would-call-modern-day-iraq-my-friends-think-i-am-nuts/503769.md?page=3)