# Was Jesus married to Mary Magdalene? Were Gospels omitted from New Testament? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 24, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898 "2004-02-24T15:05:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2004, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/81 "2004-02-27T05:40:12Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > I’m curious, what is the circumstantial case? All I remember is an old Greek translation that I think dated to the middle of the 2nd century. > > Also, it’s true, Thomas isn’t a Gnostic Gospel. However, tacked onto it somewhere is the whole thing about how Jesus will “Make Mary male.” If I remember arights, Peter objects to Mary Magdalene’s presence, because she’s a woman, and Jesus says “I will make her male, and everyone who becomes male goes to heaven” or something to that effect. This resonates well with Gnostic mystical theology, where male = light and spirit while female = darkness and matter. I think there are parallels to this in the Pistis Sophia. The circumstancial case is it’s genre, for one thing (sayings gospels disappeared after the first century) as well as the fact that it has not yet developed any crucifixion soteriolgy. It has no resurrection and does not refer to Jesus as divine. It appeals to apostolic authority for the sayings rather than a written one (which suggests a lck of knowledge of any of the Canonica Gospels as well as a still active oral tradition). The form of the sayings resemble the Jewish genre of “Wisdom sayings,” and emphasize insights into humanity and the world rather than to convey anything uniquely “Christian” in the sense of recognizing Jesus as a divine, savior figure. It treats him more as a prophet or a wisdom teacher than a God, and there is no hint of Messianism in thomas. All this suggests a very early compilation of sayings before Jesus had been deified and before Christian salvation theology had really taken off. The sayings may have been written down anytime between 60-100 CE but at least some of them probably circulated in oral form from extremely early on which is why speculation about legitimate apostollic origin is not out of the question. Thomas is not part of Q. They’re two different sayings gospels, but Thomas does help the case for the existence of Q by showing that early sayings gospels did exist. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/82 "2004-02-27T15:11:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Oooh, I love this topic! There’s so much nonsense in it but it’s all so much hoo-boy FUN! > > To start with, check out _Holy Blood, Holy Grail,_ by BBC journalists Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln (Delacorte Press, 1982). Read about the true circumstances of Jesus’ “death”! His flight with Mary and their resettlement in Gaul! The connection between the bloodline of Jesus and the Merovingian dynasty of the Franks! The confusion in Arthurian legends between the phrases “san greal” or “holy grail” (whatever a “grail” may be) “Middle English greal, from Old French graal, from Medieval Latin gradalis, flat dish.” ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/83 "2004-02-27T15:14:37Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > So, if I’ve got this all correct, we have a conspiracy of 2,000 years duration in which people who despised each other (Athanasius and Arius, the Pope and Ecumenical Patriarch in 1054, etc.) secretly agreed to suppress the truth about Jesus. And the Merovingian monarchs themselves, who were noted for following up their bloodlines, traced it only back to Merovech, and ignored all the evidence linking them back to Jesus – which would have invested their kingship with authority and power in the eyes of early-medieval Christians that would have given them all kinds of hooha over most of Europe? Don’t forget that this is all in the realm of conspiracy theory. I’m surprised that nobody has figured out a way to work the Magna Carta into all of it, yet. ---
**Author:** ![rookie523](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@rookie523](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rookie523)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/84 "2004-02-27T15:52:25Z")
I don’t have time to read all the posts yet… But if this the Gnostic Gospels cannot be disputed… if there is evidence that Jesus and Mary were married and living in France… why don’t people just come out and show all the evidence? If the Priory of Sion is true, and they are the supposed line of Jesus… why don’t they expose themselves? Is there a document that shows the genealogy of Jesus and Mary? If so, why isn’t it shown to everybody?.. It seems like most of the documents written about Jesus like Gospel of Mary, etc were written much later than the Gospels. Why was Gospel of Thomas (the disciple?) so different from the rest? We still have to take into account his written words even if they are different. It sheds light on that time. Were the gospels in the bible altered in any way? If the gospels were fake, why didn’t anyone speak up in the 100AD 200 AD?.. Why didn’t the numerous people who saw Jesus say anything to downplay the Gospels? Is there another religion that embraces that Jesus and Mary were married?.. It seems like only much later that this idea takes hold. These ideas are really intriguing but more like conspiracy theories than fact to me. People trying to find hidden meaning in things that might just not have meaning. Like those people who say that Bush knew and perhaps caused the 9/11 attacks and blew up the WTC with demolitions… It makes sense when you look at it a certain way… ---
**Author:** ![rookie523](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@rookie523](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rookie523)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/85 "2004-02-27T16:02:46Z")
sorry… hehehe… i really should read through all the posts first eh?.. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/86 "2004-02-27T20:24:09Z")
Okay, I found a copy of Robert Graves’ novel _King Jesus_ (London: Cassell & Company, 1946). In his version of the story, there are three women in Jesus’ life named Mary, and he does (sort of) marry one of them, but fathers no children. Jesus is really the son of Prince Antipater, son of King Herod the Great. In Chapter 5, Antipater is troubled that the people of Judaea despise the house of Herod the Idumaean (Edomite) as upstarts, who took the throne by force of arms with Roman backing. Simon the High Priest, a religious and historical scholar with a lot of esoteric knowledge, makes a case that Herod and his family are true heirs to the throne, because like David they are Calebites – that is, descended from Caleb a Kenite of Hebron, who was the great-grandson of Judah. Then Simon tells Antipater something even stranger, which he has not confided even to Herod: > [@](#): > > Then [Simon] confided to Antipater a most unorthodox historical theory: that in Israel every ancient chieftain or kind had ruled by woman-right: namely by marriage with the hereditary owner of the soil. Adam by marriage with Eve; Abraham by marriage with Sarah, Hagar and Keturah; Isaac by marriage with Rebecca; Jacob by marriage with Leah, Rachel, Bilhah and Zilpah; Joseph by marriage with Asenath; Caleb by marriage with Ephrath and Azubah; Hur by marriage with Miriam; David by marriage with Abigail of Carmel and Michal of Hebron; and every subsequent kind of the line of David my marriage with a matrilineal descendant of Michal. He also told Antipater that at the extinction of the monarchy the female line of Michal was engrossed by the House of Eli, the senior line of priests descended from Aaron, who were on that account styled the Heirs of David, or the Royal Heirs. > > He ended solemnly, “Prince, what I have not told your father Herod is this, that no king has a true title to rule in Israel unless he is not only a Calebite but also married to the Heiress of Michal; and that the heiress inherits by ultimogeniture and not by primogeniture – that is to say, she is always the youngest daughter of the line, not the eldest.” By Simon’s reckoning, the current heiress of Michal is an orphaned Temple ward, Miriam (Mary), daughter of Hannah and Joachim the Levite. He persuades Antipater to secure his title to the throne by marrying Miriam, but to keep the marriage secret for political reasons. Shortly after they are married, Antipater is iimprisoned and executed by his insane father. For the sake of appearances, Mary, already pregnant, publicly marries Joseph of Emmaus. Mary gives birth to Jesus and, when he reaches adulthood (having grown into a scholar of astonishing genius and erudition), she tells him of his royal heritage. By this time the Jewish monarchy is vacant; after Herod’s death, the Emperor Augustus (wisely) decided no surviving member of Herod’s family was worthy of the throne, and placed Judaea under direct rule by a Roman governor. But Mary assures Jesus he is the heir even under Roman law, and will rule as king some day. Jesus goes off to spends some time among the Essenes. He travels to Egypt and settles for a time in On-Heliopolis, a destination of religious pilgrims from all over the known world. In Chapter 16, Jesus sets forth his own conception of his goals: > [@](#): > > Jesus would comfort [the pilgrims] with these words: “Immortality is the reward of wisdom; wisdom the reward of seeking and suffering. To seek and suffer is to love God; and there is but one God, the God of Israel. Turn to him and the word of salvation will be spoken.” > > “And what of woman?” a Sidonian asked him. > > “No man can at the same time love God as he demands to be loved and woman as she demands to be loved. He must choose between the Eternal Father and the fish-tailed Queen of Heaven.” > > He later enlarged on this saying to the midwife Shelom. She asked him, “Lord, how long will death prevail?” > > “So long as women continue to bear children.” > > She answered, “I have done well, then, in bearing none.” > > “Since your barrenness was not of your own choosing, you have avoided one bitter herb only to eat of another. But I will tell you this: until the two sexes shall be as one, the male with the female neither male nor female, God’s Adversary will still walk abroad.” > > “What of yourself? Are you not a true man?” > > “I have come to destroy the works of the Female.” > > “Would you destroy the work of your own mother?” > > “I acknowledge as my mother only the Holy Spirit of God that moved upon the face of the waters before the Creation. The Female is Lust, the first Eve, who delays the hour of perfection.” > > “And are you proof against her beauty? Are you sterner of heart than our father Adam?” > > "May it be granted to me to dispel the curse of which the Preacher, the Son of Sira, writes: > > An heavy yoke was ordained for the Sons of Adam from the day they go out of their mother’s womb till the day that they return to the mother of all things, from him who is clothed with blue silk and wears a crown even to him who wears simple linen – wrath, envy, trouble and unquietness, rigour, strife and fear of death even in the time of rest. > > For the first Eve, or Acco, or Lilith, or the Spinner, whom Solomon styles the Horse Leech, and whom the Preacher styles our universal mother, has two daughters: the Womb and the Grave. ‘Give, give,’ she cries. In the hour of perfection she shall be denied at last." Back in Judaea, Jesus is baptized by John (his first cousin). He is tempted by visions of several beasts symbolizing vices – Anger, Lust, Pride, Greed, etc. – and tames all of them; but he can make no sence of his vision of a bull. Shortly thereafter, at Hebron, he makes the acquaintance of Mary the Hairdresser (Mary Magdalene), a Kenite madam and retired prostitute who is rumored to be a witch, and turns out to be a priestess of the old Triple Goddess. She is, in fact, keeping in a cave the original Ark of the Covenant, containing a red and gold tablet carved with pictures. Chapter 19: > [@](#): > > He took the lamp and studied the tablets as if with indifference. “What are these things to me, witch? Have I not studied the Scriptures? Here, pictured in a confused order, are the annals of kings and princes and prophets of Israel.” > > “In your own heart lies the confusion. Here is one story and one story only. It runs boustrophedon – as one ploughs alternately from right to left and from left to right. When the golden tablet is done, the red begins. It is the story of the ancient covenant from which the Ark takes its name: the covenant sworn between my Mistress and the twin Kings of Hebron; that she will share her love and her anger equally between them both so long as they obey her will. Here it begins.” She took the lamp from him and pointed with her finger. > > A great contest then ensued between Mary and Jesus over the interpretation of the pictures, and neither was ever at a loss for the word of contradiction. > > Mary said: _“See where my Mistress, the First Even, is seated on her birth-stool under the palm-tree. The people are waiting for a great event, for the pangs are upon her.”_ > > Swiftly Jesus answered her: “No, witch, that is not the First Eve: that is Deborah judging the Israelites under the palm-tree of Deborah. For so it is written.” > > _“Not so: for here my Mistress is delivered of twins, begotten of different fathers, namely Adam son of the Terebinth, and Azazel son of the Kerm-oak. She ties a red thread about the wrist of Azazel to distinguish him from his brother Adam.”_ > > “No, but Tamar, Judah’s daughter-in-law, is delivered of her bastards Zarah and Pharez and ties the thread about the wrist of Zarah. For so it is written.” > > \ > > _“Not so; your prevarications will not serve you. For see, where my Mistress has granted Adam his plea. His spirit rises from the dry bones of the burial ark and, uttering threats to Azazel, returns once more to the wheel of life. He will be born again to my Mistress, the First Eve, as his own son and twin to the son of Azazel.”_ > > “No, but I refute you. Here King Saul consults the witch of Endor, who raises the spirit of Samuel from the dry bones of Samuel. For so it is written.” > > _“Not so: have done, in the Mother’s name! Here the red tablet ends, and the golden tablet takes up the story again, with my Mistress, the First Eve, in pangs beneath her palm-tree.”_ > > “You have had my answers. What need to give them again?” > > “They are not acceptable to my Triple Mistress.” > > “The Living God in whom I trust is immeasurably stronger than your Mistress. He can creat what-is from what-is-not. He can make what-was as though it had never been. Her ancient tables record a covenant of death which the Lord God overturned and set aside at the Well of Kadesh when he swore a new covenant of life with his servant Moses. The Books of Moses record that covenant; they are stored in the holy ark of every synagogue throughout Jewry and written on the tablets of every loyal heart.” Jesus then exorcizes seven demons from Mary; she admits defeat for now, but warns him this is not the end. By this time Jesus has a following of persons who know that he is the son of Antipater. They stage a ceremony in which John the Baptist anoints Jesus King of Israel; Jesus’ left thigh is forced permanently out of joint, like Jacob/Israel when he wrestled the angel; and Jesus is married to the new “heiress of Michal,” a kinswoman of his mother’s, Mary of Bethany, daughter of Jose styled Cleopas. > [@](#): > > When he was ready, the Queen smiled graciously at him, descended slowly from the throne and gave him her hand. Painfully he took three steps up the ramp and sat down beside her; for the meaning of coronation is marriage to the heiress of the land. > > Rams’ horns blew, the company shouted acclamations and the wedding feast began. An unblemished white ox had been slaughtered in honor of the King and Queen, and now the company, hungry for roast flesh after a night and a day of fasting, waited for him to inaugurate the banquet by partaking of the sacred shoulder reserved for him. > > He set the shoulder aside, saying, “Those who love me will refrain with me. This custom is ended.” > > None dared eat, and the carcase of the ox was taken out for burial. . . . > > \ > > The maskers came tumblind in, disguised as birds and beasts; they danced an made merry until it was time for Jesus and Mary to retire to the bridal chamber behind the curtain. But he turned to his queen and his words were far more terrible to the company even than his refusal of the reserved shoulder. He said in a clear voice: “I am your King, and I have come not to renew but to make an end. Beloved, let us not do the act of darkness, which is the act of death. You are my sister! You are my sister! You are my sister!” > > By these words he chastely denied her the consummation of marriage. A silence as of death fell on the astonished assembly; while Mary the Queen first flushed and then blanched. > > Mary the mother of Jesus was the first to speak. She stood up and asked sternly, “My son, is this how you deal with your virgin bride? What if the King your father had shamefully done the same?” > > He answered, “Woman, the Power of Michal has left you and lighted upon your kinswoman. The reckoning is now between myself and herself alone.” > > Lazarus the Essene, the Queen’s brother who had been her guardian since the death of her father Jose Cleopas, comforted her. “The King your husband has done wisely in trampling upon the garment of shame. Only by this road can we all walk together in pure love. Dry your tears, Mary. Dry your tears, for the love of the Living God.” In Chapter 29, Jesus is crucified. As he hangs on the cross: > [@](#): > > Mary the Hairdresser came up to Shelom [the midwife] and said: “You brought this Son of Adam into the light of day, Sister; but it is my task to return him to the darkness.” > > “Who are you, woman?” Shelom asked. > > “I will confide a secret to you. The Fourth Beast, the Beast of the southern quarter of the circle in which he sat in Horeb, was the Bull of Haste. His fault was this: that he tried to force the hour of doom by declaring war upon the Female. But the Female abides and cannot be hastened.” After the crucifixion and burial, Jesus does appear alive to his followers, and tells them, “On Passover Eve I learned this: that the Kingdom is not to be taken by violence.” Then he leads them all up a hill where three women stand: Mary his mother, Mary his queen, “and a very tall woman whose face was veiled.” The four of them vanish in a mist. It’s not the _Holy Blood, Holy Grail_ version of the story – it’s even more interesting. I haven’t checked the scholarship on which Graves based his assumptions, but it’s obvious he gave the scholarship a lot of effort. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/87 "2004-02-28T06:20:02Z")
> [@rookie523](#): > > Is there a document that shows the genealogy of Jesus and Mary? > If so, why isn’t it shown to everybody?.. It’s in little known document, called [The Gospel of Matthew](http://www.lifeofchrist.com/life/genealogy/matthew.asp). (Doesn’t anyone read the Bible anymore?! ☹ ) ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/88 "2004-02-28T15:55:35Z")
> [@Ghanima](#): > > As a born and raised heathen, I am really having a giggle over this thread. It’s like listening to people argue over the intricacies of the relationships on their favorite soap: > > A; “First Jesus went to Gaul, then he met Mary and they had sex…” > B: “No, they didn’t!” > A: “Yes they did, they were very close and the screen panned up to the romantic view, and you just knew…” > B: “If Mary was so important, she would have had more screen time.” > A: “That was an attempt on the part of the editors to de-emphasize the role that Mary had in the original script!” > > Whatever, you kooky Christers. I’m with you, as a child of an ex-Mormon and ex-Christian Scientist, myself a former born-again Christian, now dead-again Agnostic. Considering that no one knows who really wrote the Gospels now accepted as canon (Did Matthew the Apostle write the Gospel of Matthew? Or was it some other Matthew? Or was it followers of the Apostle Matthew?), why would I accept the judgements of 5th century scholarship as a true account of what happened back then? Assuming the apostolic names on the gospels are who Christians say they are, then who the hell are Mark and Luke, and why should I accept their story of events over Mary, Phillip and Thomas? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/89 "2004-02-29T22:34:35Z")
> [@Elenfair](#): > > \ If you’re fascinated by this, you should also look into learning more about Asherah (~Atirat) who, for quite a few scholars, may have been Ywhw’s wife… even in the biblical texts… > > Spent an entire term studying the question. > > Talk about throwing monkey wrenches into everything… 😉 > > \ I actually read a brief article on Asherah. I can’t say I learned much about her, seeing as it was just a synopsis of what archeologists had uncovered, but I am curious as to whether you have any links from which I could learn more. Incidentally, another point of interest (at least to me) was that YWHW had a last name, supposedly (Shomron). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/90 "2004-03-01T03:25:52Z")
Also from Grave’s _King Jesus,_ Chapter 1: > [@](#): > > The fact [says Agabus the Decapolitan, writing in 93 A.D.] is that the Jews as a nation have persuaded themselves that they differ in one particular from all others that live on the shores of the Mediterranean Sea: namely, that they never owed any duty to the Great Triple moon-goddess who is generally reputed to have mothered the Mediterranean races, or to any other goddess or nymph whatsoever. This claim is untenable, for their sacred books preserve clear traces of their former attachment, notably in the accounts that they give of their heroes Adam, Noah, Abraham, Jacob and Moses. . . . [The Jews] have proclaimed Jehovah as the sole Ruler of the Universe and represented the Goddess as a mere demoness, witch, Queen of Harlots, succuba and prime mischief-maker. > > Jehovah, it seems clear, was once regarded as a devoted son of the Great Goddess, who obeyed her in all things and by her favour swallowed up a number of variously named rival gods and godlings . . . Later (if it is permitted to write in this style) he did exactly what his Roman counterpart, Capitoline Jove, has done: he formed a supernal Trinity in conjunction with two of the Goddess’s three persons, namely, **Anatha** of the Lions and **Ashima** of the Doves, the counterparts of Juno and Minerva; the remaining person, a sort of Hecate named **Sheol,** retiring to rule the infernal regions. Most Jews hold that she still reigns there, for they say, “Jehovah has no part in Sheol”, and quote the authority of the 115th Psalm: “The dead praise not Jehovah, nor do any that go down into silence.” . . . God without Goddess, the Romans and Greeks agree, is spiritual insufficiency; but this the Jews deny. > > In a somewhat obscene passage in the Book of the Prophet Ezekiel is to be found Jehovah’s bill of divorcement against his two partner-Goddesses, who are there named **Aholah** and **Aholibah.** Nevertheless, the Trinity continued undissolved in a Jewish Temple at Elephantine in Upper Egypt until five hundred years ago. > > Nobody can understand the story of Jesus except in the light of this Jewish obsession with celestial patriarchy . . . He once told Shelom, the midwife who had brought him into the world, that he had “come to destroy the work of the female”; he accepted the title of “Son of David” – King David who had stabilized the Jewish monarchy and persuaded the priestesses of Anatha, until then the proud rulers of clans and tribes, to content themselves with membership in his royal harem. And as the Second Adam Jesus’s self-imposed task was to undo the evil which, according to patriarchal legend, the First Adam had caused by sinfully listening to the seductive plea of his wife Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/91 "2004-03-01T05:28:05Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > There were occasional efforts to silence _individuals_ (such as Marcion) that were more or less successful (although not so successful that we do not know what Marcion said)… [channeling Polycarp of Smyrna] You don’t **want** to know what Marcion said! [/channeling Polycarp of Smyrna] 😃 Seriously, what you had to say was excellent. ---
**Author:** ![rookie523](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@rookie523](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rookie523)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/92 "2004-03-01T17:28:57Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > It’s in little known document, called [The Gospel of Matthew](http://www.lifeofchrist.com/life/genealogy/matthew.asp). > > (Doesn’t anyone read the Bible anymore?! ☹ ) I should’ve posted… the descendants of the Jesus and Mary supposed marriage…does anyone have the records of that? Apparently that is what the Holy Grail is. But why in 1900 years or so hasn’t that record ever been shown?.. If I was Jesus’ descendant I’d be proclaiming it… the church wasn’t that big in 200AD and I’m sure if you had a paper saying that you were the son of Jesus and Mary… people would listen… But why didn’t this happen?.. And if it did, where is the evidence? All the evidence couldn’t have been destroyed… ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/93 "2004-03-01T19:53:31Z")
**rookie523** , such records were not kept. Before the 16th century in Europe, anyone lower than royalty or the nobility would be lucky to have any record of his birth, marriage, or death. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/94 "2004-03-01T20:51:46Z")
On a tangentially related topic, while the Ethiopian royal family never claimed descent from Jesus, it did (and does) claim direct lineal descent from King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba; the story is that when she came for a state visit, he seduced her and knocked her up. Which, if true, would make the Ethiopian emperors distant cousins of Jesus, if Jesus really was a “Son of David.” (The website of the Crown Council of Ethiopia (royalty-in-exile), at [http://www.ethiopiancrown.org/](http://www.ethiopiancrown.org/), includes a “Further reading about Ethiopia” page which lists _Holy Blood, Holy Grail_ as a source.) That might explain why the Rastafarians see Haile Selassie as the Messiah. (Well, that and a whole lotta ganja.) Come to think of it – since Solomon had 600 wives and 400 concubines (and the horny bastard **still** had to have a little action on the side!), and the Jewish gene-pool must have gone through a lot of sloshing and churning in the millennia since – what Jew **isn’t** a Son or Daughter of David? You know, it’s like the theory that any modern European or European-derived person is statistically certain to be a direct descendant of Charlemagne. What’s more: Since we so-called white gentiles are derived from Europe, where Jews were settled in almost every country at one time or another since the fall of Rome, and where in every country they came under very strong pressure to convert to Christianity – and it is a matter of clear historical record that in every generation, some Jews did give in and convert, and within one or two generations the converts were assimilated into the larger gentile population – then any of us could be, and probably is, partially descended from Jews (would’ve made Hitler shudder!) and, therefore, from King David. So what’s the big distinction about having him for an ancestor? (The people we now call “Jews” are, of course, descended from those who resisted the pressure and refused to convert. Which explains a lot about their history: They’ve been selectively bred for stubbornness!) ---
**Author:** ![rookie523](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@rookie523](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rookie523)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/95 "2004-03-01T21:15:16Z")
Well according to the Da Vinci Code, and the conspiracy theorists, the Holy Grail is made up of a record Jesus’ children and descendants. Also, wouldn’t Jesus and his jewish family in France have kept a record around 30-100AD?.. What kept them from making a record like this? Why wasn’t that shown to everybody? Also in Acts 9:22 22Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by **proving** that Jesus is the Christ. I’m not sure the original language there… but Paul didn’t even know Jesus and persecuted those that followed him. If Paul was against Jesus… wouldn’t he have been diligent in proving Jesus wrong or right? I find the theory of that Jesus didn’t die and married Mary and moved to France intriguing… but can’t find any reason to believe it… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/96 "2004-03-01T21:21:45Z")
Then there’s the question of how “pure” the Jewish race itself could possibly be. I remember reading in H.G. Wells’ _Outline of History_ that after the final destruction of the Carthaginian Empire in the Third Punic War, a lot its surviving people turned to Judaism as being the only Semitic game left in town. And here’s another quote from Graves’ _King Jesus,_ Chapter 10: > [@](#): > > “I have nothing against the Jews as a nation [said Livia to her husband, the Emperor Augustus], but the Jews as a fanatic sect who make converts among Greeks and Syrians and Orientals and enroll them as spiritual sons of their ancestor Abraham are extraordinarily dangerous. I wonder whether you realize that not only are three million Jews settled within Herod’s Palestinian territories, but nearly four million more of this energetic and thrifty race are dispersed throughout the rest of your dominions, and that of these Dispersed Jews only a million or so are of Palestinian ancestry; the rest are converts. If the sect continues to grow at the present rate it will soon swallow up all the ancient religious cults of Greece and Italy; for to make a convert is esteemed a highly meritorious act in a Jew, and to become a convert is to benefit from the highly organized system of mutual assistance which Judaism offers. And the Jews are clever: they make converts only of the more intelligent and industrious type of foreigner. It is quite an honour to be enrolled as a Jew.” And through all the centuries of their post-Roman Diaspora, the Jews were forced to accept a lot of cuckoos in their nests, by way of gentile overlords who forced themselves on Jewish women, which is why the Jews developed a rule that anyone is a native “Jew” whose mother is Jewish. We’re all cousins, one way or another. No so-called race or nation of humanity is “pure.” (Well, maybe the Japanese.) ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/97 "2004-03-02T18:58:26Z")
> [@Phlosphr](#): > > Last night I attended a Symposium at my school that brought together some very interesting ideas and notions presented by several leading biblical scholars. My wife and I sat with my collegue, a theology professor here at school. He invited us on a whim and I am very happy he did. > …snip… ===== I’m not much of one to quote the Bible for anything other than literary references, but even the Bible tells us he was married. Remember the wedding at Cana? JC shows up, his mother chews his ass for forgetting the wine, he snaps his fingers and presto - booze by the barrel. All well and good, until you look at wedding customs of the time. It was the responsibility of the GROOM to provide the wine at weddings. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/98 "2004-03-02T19:38:04Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > It was the responsibility of the GROOM to provide the wine at weddings. Which would indicate it was not Jesus’ wedding. When the wine gave out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what concern is that to you and to me? My hour has not yet come.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/99 "2004-03-03T04:26:17Z")
And once the wine has been changed, the steward summons the groom (_not_ identified as Jesus) and chastizes him for serving the good stuff last. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898/100 "2004-03-03T04:44:38Z")
I sometimes wonder how the Mormons (and other Christian Temperance types) explain that story . . . perhaps by arguing that the Aramaic word usually translated as “wine” actually means “non-alcoholic grape juice”? Just as Catholics, committed to the doctrine that the Virgin Mary remained a virgin all her life, explain the references to James and Joses “the brothers of Jesus” by insisting that the word “brothers” actually means “cousins”. Or else they were Joseph’s sons from his first marriage . . . or else . . . let’s not discuss this any more, _Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum . . ._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-married-to-mary-magdalene-were-gospels-omitted-from-new-testament/230898.md?page=4)