# Was Jesus' resurrection theologically necessary? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038 "2010-04-05T16:38:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/61 "2010-04-08T12:48:32Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Death is still death even if you come back to life afterwards. And I think that being crucified is one of the more unpleasant ways to die. > > To use an analogy, would you tell somebody who was raped that their rape was meaningless because they were okay afterwards? It’s not like their rape was anything permanent - they stay in the hospital for three days and then get released just like they were before. It’s like it never happened. > > Obviously that’s not the case. The experience of rape is a serious trauma even if the victim survives it. So why do you dismiss the experience of death so lightly? Yes,Crucifixion is a horrible way to die, and so is suffering for many months with cancer, or being left to live as some of our soldiers do unable to walk, or other suffering they go through, some people suffer very painfully for many months or years, and death would be a good thing to them, that is why they want the right to die. No, a rape victum’s suffering is different, they didn’t choose it and were not capable of stopping it at any time. Jesus could. If Jesus knew he was going to return in 3 days (as the Bible states) then death was meaningless, Death is only bad if it is permanent. If he was God as some think of the way God is, then He could bear the crucifixion pain more than some people do a head ache, if he so chose. according to Genesis that is what was the punishment for sin,not eternal suffering of a soul. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/62 "2010-04-08T12:56:21Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Theologically speaking I see his life and death as a form of pointing the way to awakening to the reality that we are primarily spiritual beings temporarily inhabiting these physical bodies. His death was the product of remaining true to his teaching that reality and his resurrection was a demonstration of that reality. If Jesus needed to die to show that, what was the point of the people that came up from their graves and were seen walking around? If we are spiritual beings in a body why should the soul suffer for things the body did? Why did Lazarus have to die again? That alone should have been proof of a spiritual being and the suffering of Jesus becomes moot. To me it makes a God seem very cruel, or unable to teach any other way. Like a human father would Chop off his child’s leg to teach him to hop! ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/63 "2010-04-08T13:20:25Z")
Why Jesus’ death is needed IMHO: In the beginning Adam and Eve basically followed Satan, leaving God. This makes Satan Adam and Eve’s God. Dead to rights Satan now had the authority to do as he pleases with humans, but Satan Himself is under the Lord, and the Lord has the right to impose anything on Satan He wants, which because He is the Lord, will be in line with righteousness. The Lord holds back on judging Satan fully, because as Satan goes, so does his followers, namely Adam and Eve and all humanity, and imposes a much lesser sentence. This mercy extended to Satan allowed God to mediate for us, buying us much freedom that would not be if Satan had full control over us. God allowed strict rules that incurred various curses when broken to be placed on humanity, but also allowed us freedom to have certain freedoms, these freedoms would be a path to Love and children - which would allow Jesus. Jesus came into this world lived and was condemned to die, though He committed no sin as far as the Father was concerned, very possibly Satan thought otherwise as Jesus violated the written code, healing on the Sabbath. That death was payment for every sin ever committed, as if you commit one sin you are as guilty as someone committing 100 sins, the sentence is the exact same one sin = sin, one hundred sins = sin, penalty = death. Jesus had to pay that penalty which He did, but since He was sinless death could not hold Him and He was resurrected. Now that penalty is pre-paid, so when some becomes one with Jesus, that prepayment has been made in our behalf - we become one with Jesus through the marriage between Jesus and the church, any sin is already paid in full, and since one or many sins are the same, no other penalty can be imposed. This is what is know as grace, when one is under grace they are not under the law, the penalty has been paid, but just as Jesus followed the Holy Spirit, the believer must follow the Holy Spirit, which will lead the believer to live in Love, of which there are no laws. The restrictions of the Law have been lifted at this point, which God never wanted for us. What about disobedient believers? God will try to correct them, many times, but if they still resist they will (God will allow them to) shipwreck their faith. They will be of no use to the advancement of God’s Kingdom, but will be saved when their life is done. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/64 "2010-04-08T14:19:10Z")
Kanicbird, are you espousing the beliefs of some established church I’m unfamiliar with or are your religious views your own? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/65 "2010-04-08T15:13:31Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > If Jesus needed to die to show that, what was the point of the people that came up from their graves and were seen walking around? If we are spiritual beings in a body why should the soul suffer for things the body did? Why did Lazarus have to die again? That alone should have been proof of a spiritual being and the suffering of Jesus becomes moot. > > To me it makes a God seem very cruel, or unable to teach any other way. Like a human father would Chop off his child’s leg to teach him to hop! I was just commenting on the subject of this thread. My guess is that if there is anything to any of this it’s beyond us to grasp. I thought Bishop Spong made a good point when asked about Panentheism vs Pantheism. > [@](#): > > Panentheism suggests that God is experienced in and through all things, but tries to distinguish itself from the claims made by Pantheism that God is identical with all things. Panentheism was designed to assert “the beyond” nature of the transcendent. > > **My sense is that all human beings can do is to talk about how we believe we have experienced God, which is quite different from who or what God is. Horses cannot, because of the limits of their horse consciousness, describe what it means to be human. I wonder why any of us think that human beings, because of the limits of our human consciousness, can describe what it means to be God.** > > So I am not drawn to any words that purport to define God. I am deeply drawn to God but am content to experience that reality, not to define it. So Theism, Pantheism, Panentheism are of little value to me. Thanks for enquiring {bolding mine} So, all we can do is speculate but just maybe, we, as part of God rather than separate, were part of the creation of all we behold and participate voluntarily. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/66 "2010-04-08T15:23:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Kanicbird, are you espousing the beliefs of some established church I’m unfamiliar with or are your religious views your own? I believe much is directly from the Holy Spirit. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/67 "2010-04-08T15:23:48Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > God in your view has set up a world where people die of starvation, drown, burn up in fires, suffer the ravages of painful diseases. I think that what many Christians would say is that God made a world that could have been a paradise had humans not chosen to sin (see, e.g., C.S. Lewis’s _Perelandra_). God allowing misery to continue is a consequence of his decision to respect the free will that he provided to humans. The decision to manifest as the human Christ is similarly a way of respecting free will; instead of stepping on that free will by just “overruling” humans’ decision to sin and wiping them clean, God did it in a way that allowed him to be a human _choosing_ to follow a path that led to the Crucifixion (which he considered sufficient to balance humanity’s sins). It’s essentially a cheat that allows God to absorb the sins of humanity while still preserving the autonomy that he provided them. Think of the Thomas Covenant books where the Creator of that world explains that he sent Covenant in as his agent, because if he reached his own hand into the world he’d created, he’d break it. Of course, some Christian denominations do not believe in free will, and I have no idea how their world-view works. > [@monavis](#): > > If Jesus knew he was going to return in 3 days (as the Bible states) then death was meaningless, Death is only bad if it is permanent. I don’t know that one has to conclude that he _knew_ he was going to return, as opposed to simply having faith that he would. Christians believe that he was fully human as well as fully divine, and a fully human man cannot know for certain what comes after death. (Yes, I’m resorting to paradox here, but blame the early Christians, not me. ;)). Many Christians today believe that death is not permanent, but some level of fear of death seems to be hard-wired into us. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/68 "2010-04-08T15:24:17Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I believe much is directly from the Holy Spirit. Which doesn’t exactly answer the question, does it? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/69 "2010-04-08T15:38:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which doesn’t exactly answer the question, does it? for **kanicbird** it does. His beliefs are a smorgasbord of Christian beliefs and whatever, that he believes he was directed to by the Holy Spirit sent to lead us to the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/70 "2010-04-08T15:53:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which doesn’t exactly answer the question, does it? It answers **LIttle Nemo** ’s question in #64 pretty squarely, it seems to me. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/71 "2010-04-08T17:59:05Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > I mean no disrespect, but it was incomprehensible to the point of being pure jibberish. I was sure you were whooshing us when Revtim chimed in. > > It had no biblical cites at all. No references to establish what the people who actually wrote the accounts believed, and no historical referenced to show what the first century Christians believed. > > If you’re not whooshing us, then the kindest assessment is that you were witnessing to us. As I said at the top of the post, it was derived from reason, and research has only come in afterwards, in the role of failing to refute the reason. Logically speaking nobody should expect something based in reason to have biblical quotes or references to the beliefs of the original writers - and their beliefs have nothing to do with anything anyway, because for the purpose of the discussion we’re assuming the death/crucifixion functions in objective reality, independent of any uneducated primitive’s beliefs. Now, if you seriously think that the bible or original writers have any insights which can be constructed into an argument refuting my analysis, then please, present them. But simply asserting that it was incomprehensible or jibberish is either ad-hominem threadshitting - or a declaration that your own reading comprehension is too poor to comprehend and reply. After all, other people haven’t seemed to have that problem… ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/72 "2010-04-09T13:07:47Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I believe much is directly from the Holy Spirit. How do you know if it is a Holy Spirit and not an evil one? The Bible says satan disguises himself as an angel of light. As Bart Simpson says, “what if when you die God is mad because you followed the wrong religion”. Yours being a religion of 1 and the Holy Spirit inspired others to think the opposite. Isn’t it a bit strange? You believe it, but that is your right, not a fact of a God. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/73 "2010-04-09T13:14:30Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I think that what many Christians would say is that God made a world that could have been a paradise had humans not chosen to sin (see, e.g., C.S. Lewis’s _Perelandra_). God allowing misery to continue is a consequence of his decision to respect the free will that he provided to humans. The decision to manifest as the human Christ is similarly a way of respecting free will; instead of stepping on that free will by just “overruling” humans’ decision to sin and wiping them clean, God did it in a way that allowed him to be a human _choosing_ to follow a path that led to the Crucifixion (which he considered sufficient to balance humanity’s sins). > > It’s essentially a cheat that allows God to absorb the sins of humanity while still preserving the autonomy that he provided them. Think of the Thomas Covenant books where the Creator of that world explains that he sent Covenant in as his agent, because if he reached his own hand into the world he’d created, he’d break it. > > I might add that, He was also quoted that He would return in 3 days so it sounds like he knew( or thought he knew) he would only be dead for 3 days. > > Of course, some Christian denominations do not believe in free will, and I have no idea how their world-view works. > > I don’t know that one has to conclude that he _knew_ he was going to return, as opposed to simply having faith that he would. Christians believe that he was fully human as well as fully divine, and a fully human man cannot know for certain what comes after death. (Yes, I’m resorting to paradox here, but blame the early Christians, not me. ;)). Many Christians today believe that death is not permanent, but some level of fear of death seems to be hard-wired into us. If one believes the Bible being the word of God and all, then both Matthew and Mark quote Jesus of saying He would return in glory with His angels, and some of those standing there would witness it, and His coming into His kingdom. It didn’t happen. Nothing really dies, just changes back to the atoms etc. that were there before, even grass etc. just changes back. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/74 "2010-04-09T13:16:52Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Seriously, I’m looking for a mechanism, because there are only two ways this can go: “There is a rational reason why the specific act of an innocent man dying changes the way things work”, or “God is unbounded by rationality, reason, and sanity”. I’m kind of looking for the former, if for no other reason than that if there was no _particular_ reason why jesus’s death deactivated our sin, then there’s no reason why the death of a fly next week won’t turn it back on. In magic, reason is suspended. And this is magic. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/75 "2010-04-09T13:23:33Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > If one believes the Bible being the word of God and all, then both Matthew and Mark quote Jesus of saying He would return in glory with His angels, and some of those standing there would witness it, and His coming into His kingdom. It didn’t happen. > > Nothing really dies, just changes back to the atoms etc. that were there before, even grass etc. just changes back. I would also add that Jesus said, He and the Father were one and also quoted as saying that if you saw Him then you saw the father,and also that he was going to ressurrect in 3 days,so He expected to raise Himself up in 3 days. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/76 "2010-04-09T14:19:02Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > How do you know if it is a Holy Spirit and not an evil one? The Bible says satan disguises himself as an angel of light. As Bart Simpson says, “what if when you die God is mad because you followed the wrong religion”. Yours being a religion of 1 and the Holy Spirit inspired others to think the opposite. Isn’t it a bit strange? > > You believe it, but that is your right, not a fact of a God. It’s the relationship, you get to know a person, in this case Lord Jesus. You learn His way, He shows you how everything fits together and there will be no more bad things (like suffering), and everyone will be lifted up. He also gives you the exact spirit that He has, you can detect true good and evil in people. Also He offers a gift no other God to my knowledge offers, to adopt us all as full sons/daughters giving us equal status as Jesus has with the Father, and to conform us to His Son Jesus. To become one with God Himself. So as far as God shopping goes, there is no better offer that I’m aware of. You also see how Jesus is helping you, how He is totally undoing the hurt that was put in your life, not just covering it up, but resolving it totally and making peace. You learn His way of forgiveness and Love and let go of things like anger - these new ways work better. Religion is a incorrect term for this, it’s a relationship just as you have with a close family member. That is what we all want, to know God in that way. Nitpick: God does not deal in facts, that is human and what man calls facts full of errors, but God deals in truths, which are eternal, but man in himself can not understand. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/77 "2010-04-09T17:41:46Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > It’s the relationship, you get to know a person, in this case Lord Jesus. You learn His way, He shows you how everything fits together and there will be no more bad things (like suffering), and everyone will be lifted up. He also gives you the exact spirit that He has, you can detect true good and evil in people. > > Also He offers a gift no other God to my knowledge offers, to adopt us all as full sons/daughters giving us equal status as Jesus has with the Father, and to conform us to His Son Jesus. To become one with God Himself. So as far as God shopping goes, there is no better offer that I’m aware of. > > You also see how Jesus is helping you, how He is totally undoing the hurt that was put in your life, not just covering it up, but resolving it totally and making peace. You learn His way of forgiveness and Love and let go of things like anger - these new ways work better. > > Religion is a incorrect term for this, it’s a relationship just as you have with a close family member. That is what we all want, to know God in that way. > > Nitpick: God does not deal in facts, that is human and what man calls facts full of errors, but God deals in truths, which are eternal, but man in himself can not understand. I don’t have a real dog in ‘converting’ you (if we cut you off two more of you will grow in your place), but I feel obliged to point out that Satan is supposed to be _really_ smooth, and he’s got no reason whatsoever to tip his hand before you die. If I were Satan (or some other entity interested in collecting followers in a culture that’s fond of the Bible) I would behave _exactly_ like God/Jesus at all times (impersonating them both alternately as necessary) - excepting of course the spirit I gave you would tell you _I_ was good, and that the real god was evil. Philisophically speaking, the problem is that we’re limited mortals and we don’t control the flow of information; the entity contacting us does. (Er, presuming we’re not imagining the entire encounter.) This means that we’re entirely dependent on the the entity to tell us about themself. If they chose to lie, put on an act, or anything of the sort, the only possible chance we have of detecting their duplicity depends on them making _errors_ - and on us being able to recognize these errors. If they never screw up, it’s _impossible_ for us to identify them as a fraud - inherently impossible. That said, you’ve probably noticed that people around here frequently express the opinion that your diety sounds really, really evil to them. So perhaps your diety isn’t that good at hiding his real motives after all. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/78 "2010-04-09T17:53:53Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s the relationship, you get to know a person, in this case Lord Jesus. You learn His way, He shows you how everything fits together and there will be no more bad things (like suffering), and everyone will be lifted up. He also gives you the exact spirit that He has, you can detect true good and evil in people. > > Also He offers a gift no other God to my knowledge offers, to adopt us all as full sons/daughters giving us equal status as Jesus has with the Father, and to conform us to His Son Jesus. To become one with God Himself. So as far as God shopping goes, there is no better offer that I’m aware of. > > You also see how Jesus is helping you, how He is totally undoing the hurt that was put in your life, not just covering it up, but resolving it totally and making peace. You learn His way of forgiveness and Love and let go of things like anger - these new ways work better. > > Religion is a incorrect term for this, it’s a relationship just as you have with a close family member. That is what we all want, to know God in that way. From what you’ve said, your religious beliefs are based on a message you received directly from God. Which is relevant to this thread because I started out talking about how God gave proof directly to the apostles via the resurrection. Now that’s great for the apostles and you and any one else who’s received a personal revelation. But where does that leave the rest of us? Why are we supposed to follow on just faith when you guys got proof? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/79 "2010-04-09T19:51:05Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Why Jesus’ death is needed IMHO: > > In the beginning Adam and Eve basically followed Satan, leaving God. This makes Satan Adam and Eve’s God. Dead to rights Satan now had the authority to do as he pleases with humans, but Satan Himself is under the Lord, and the Lord has the right to impose anything on Satan He wants, which because He is the Lord, will be in line with righteousness. The Lord holds back on judging Satan fully, because as Satan goes, so does his followers, namely Adam and Eve and all humanity, and imposes a much lesser sentence. Your beliefs seem to hinge at least on part on the inheritance of sin, from creators to created. We inherit the sins and fall of Adam and Eve, because they’re our forebears. To what extent would you say precedence matters in terms of these things - for example, say my grandfather was a horribly evil man, while my father was a noble and righteous one. Do I as their descendant inherit the sins or the lack of sins? What if it was the other way around, and the evil was closer to me? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038/80 "2010-04-09T19:57:21Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I would also add that Jesus said, He and the Father were one and also quoted as saying that if you saw Him then you saw the father,and also that he was going to ressurrect in 3 days,so He expected to raise Himself up in 3 days. I expect to have lunch with my mother in three days. Am I precognitive, or just making a prediction? 😛 > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Why are we supposed to follow on just faith when you guys got proof? The thing is, it’s _always_ an exercise in faith, whether you get a sign or not. Any personal revelation can be explained away by reason. Suppose a dove flies in through my window to land on my arm, and I suddenly have a vision telling me that Jesus will return in glory in 2012. Is that the Holy Spirit or a hallucination? The only way to decide that it is a religious experience is through faith. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-jesus-resurrection-theologically-necessary/535038.md?page=5)